****Please forgive any and all transcription errors as this was transcribed by Otter.ai.****

(Music - shark theme)

Kenneth Kinney 0:16

Hello and welcome back to A Shark's Perspective.

Kenneth Kinney 0:18

Kind of an overly simplistic example, but if you had a lot of people say 20 deep, and if you started on one end until that person's story, and then ask them to recite that story to the person in front of them, and then pass it on down the line, then it's likely that the story you end up with is going to be inconsistent and delineated from the initial message in the story that you started with at first. And that's part of the problem a lot with businesses today. And I've spoken about this so many times on these shows, it's not just a communications issue to fix. It's something that can have a real impact on your customers with leads sales revenues, and I've experienced it firsthand way too often.

Kenneth Kinney 0:53

Jim Karrh is a consultant at DSG, a speaker, a podcast host, and the author of the science of customer connections, manage your message to grow your business. And on this episode, we'll discuss consistent messaging versus mixed messaging, the customer conversations and problem solving, sales enablement, neuroscience, the Arkansas Alps, Stepford Wives needs more cowbell and a lot, lot more.

Kenneth Kinney 1:14

So let's tune in to a customer connection scientists with a customer connection shark on this episode of A Shark's Perspective.

[intro music]

Kenneth Kinney 1:26

All right, Jim, thank you so much for joining us today on A Shark's Perspective. Tell us a little bit about your background and your career to date.

Jim Karrh 1:33

Well, Shark I am a bit of a mix. And what I found is, first of all, everything kind of made sense at the time. But even looking back in the rearview mirror of a career path. It's like a lot of us whether we're in marketing, specifically or in business more generally, things change so much. And oftentimes, we wind up getting on some kind of parallel tracks, to take it just a snapshot today. I do speaking and consulting and coaching work, I work primarily with executives and marketers and sales teams. But I came to it from a path of had a very small business many, many years ago, when I had plenty of hair, and sold that business and having gone to business school and done all that sort of thing. And I decided to go back and get a PhD because I thought teaching and consulting would be a really cool job. Wow, these these people rarely have to wear a tie. And they get to do lots of really good stuff. So I did that went to the University of Florida, got a PhD and started teaching around media management, marketing, communication advertising, to hit series of teaching jobs, and in moved to Little Rock, Arkansas, where I left after making tenure, which no one does shark. But I had an offer from a consulting client to become a chief marketing officer of a medium sized private company. And they had three different lines of business. And so I had my cmo run for a number of years. And then for about the past 12 years or so I've been part of a group called DSG, which does sales and ad work. It's a boutique that works with field level sales teams in the business to business segment and with subject matter experts and sales leaders, helping people who have something complicated and valuable, typically expensive to sell to be able to put that into conversations that actually help them sell. And what we find is that a lot of people have a lot of product knowledge, they have experience, but they lack messaging and conversations to help support the growth of their business. So that's what I do now, whether it's with a large enterprise entrepreneurs, talking to associations, leadership groups, or even solo professionals.

Kenneth Kinney 3:58

Well, I picked up a copy of your book, I just happen to be vacationing in the Redneck Riviera, where I love to spend time in the water. It's very hard to find anybody that wants to go and dive in the winter. But I picked up a copy of your book at a bookstore outside of Destin, Florida, the science of customer connections, manage your message to grow your business. It just happened to be penciled in in between a few other books and I found it to be interesting and engaging. And I grabbed a copy and read it while I was on vacation. I thoroughly enjoyed it because it really hits a lot of the hot button topics with business growth that often focus on on the on my show and in other forms of what I've done in my career. So tell me a little bit about the impetus for the book. When you started down this path. What was the reason that you wanted to write the book?

Jim Karrh 4:35

Well, one of the things about it, by the way, for anyone who thinks they want to write a book, it is a great pursuit, but it's you have to have a really hard head about it. You have to be willing to have some patience and tolerate pain a little bit but first of all, I'm really glad that you found the book. All friends down in Destin. Anybody who was moving my book up to the top of the shelfie Thank you very much. But I'm glad you came across it. When I found it, what really compelled me to start this process a little while back, Kenneth is, from those varied experiences that I talked about, you start seeing patterns. And I'm sure you've seen it in your own work in things that you know, work well. And then things that you you look at that other people are doing and think, oh, there's a better way, there, I don't want you to be frustrated, I don't want you to get not reach the results that you'd like and through my work, be it putting together consumer and audience research in teaching and coaching. And having been as a CMO responsible within an organization for getting the message out internally and externally. And then what I've been doing lately was working with a lot of people who are out in the field, began to saw patterns of what tends to separate those few people in teams and organizations that have really consistently good everyday business conversations, versus most of us out there, who are you find the whole thing, a little frustrating, squishy, they're not quite sure they understand inherently the value of that, but don't know how to quite get there. And came to the conclusion that there's a very simple, but yet effective, practical way of looking at it, in that those who seem to do this, well, individually, and especially across business or an organization is they managed to combine three areas. The first is the message in that they know what to say they've got something that's differentiated, and it's clear and conversational, and, and they're ready for those conversations. The second thing is they have recruited and they feed a network of messengers inside and outside of the organization. And there's some some best practices around that. And then third, and finally, they have adopted some management habits, so that the leadership and the frontline managers are modeling the right behaviors, they're keeping the content fresh, they're supporting people and building their confidence and socializing this whole effort. So it becomes part of the fabric of organization itself. And so looking at that thinking a lot of different specific cases, and also bringing in a lot of research, my research background, I still have to scratch that itch a little bit along the way. But thinking, what do we know from psychology, brain science, but also very practically, what is effective, a simple way of looking at this, and some guidelines so that someone could pick up this book and do that themselves at least gets started along that process, or they wanted to get some help? Great. But they have some clear guidelines in, in simple language that are very practical.

Kenneth Kinney 7:52

So when you started pursuing this line of thinking and looking at companies that you've worked with work for, were you looking at it primarily as a communications issue as a marketing issue, operations, sales enablement? What angle was primarily driving this focus?

Jim Karrh 8:08

Well, considering that I've been in a lot of those different areas, I think I was a bit agnostic. In that regard. I wasn't really trying to approach it like, Hey, here's a better way to do marketing, or here's a better way Exactly. Right. It's kind of a casserole. Anyways, right? You've got all these pieces that should fit together. And of course, the reality today is that especially you get into organization of any size, is that there's always been the silo problem, people get in different business units marketing, separated from sales that separated from product that separate from service and installation, and all of those sorts of things. But of course, people's work patterns are different today. So more virtual work, people that are well not necessarily in the same place,

Kenneth Kinney 8:53

or the external agencies you work with. That creates an amazing amount of extra siloed efforts.

Jim Karrh 8:59

Exactly. So the silos are far away, you've got virtual versus physical, you had generational differences now, both inside of the company and the customers that you serve. So there's a lot of separation and a lot of gaps that are there. So what I found is there without getting too simplistic, is there a more holistic, just, again, practical, everyday way? So whether you're leading a marketing team, or if you're leading a business unit, or leading an organization or just thinking about your own behaviors, if you've got a small business, how can you bring those pieces together? Regardless of what the title is, or what business unit you're, you've found yourself drawn to?

Kenneth Kinney 9:40

Well, so when you're going in providing consulting as a service, to look at better ways of aligning messaging to make it clear, what areas of companies do you find tend to be the guiltiest? Not that it's intended to be a communications issue or a marketing issue or operations or whatever. And I'm not trying to name names, but what area of the company tends to tilt the message the wrong way the most.

Jim Karrh 10:04

Well, you know, you can get me into a lot of trouble. If I'm trying to point fingers too much in one area, I, this might be helpful too. And I think your listeners can, this would resonate with them as well. And there are areas where it can go wrong in different units and different perspectives, and different wants, and needs that will come from different units. So let's say for example, in marketing, and we're painting with broad, broad strokes here, right? But marketing tends, with people who are really skilled in communication, they're a good word SMIS. So they also want a real sense of consistency, you have a lot of expertise in the digital world, what we want is consistency with what's on our, our website and in search in those areas digitally, with what's happening in the analog conversations, say that the sales teams having or in a partner selling channel environment, installation, maintenance, all those sorts of things if as it applies. So marketing is really good at word smithing and they want consistency. Now you step over to sales, where you tend to have people who have their portfolio, their way of doing things. And they're less concerned with consistency, Kenneth, they want to do things their way they want some autonomy. They know the language and the examples and things that they want. And then you get back over other units, again, that may be coming into play, and the leadership wants everyone to be working together. And they want the top line to be healthy as well. So everyone has these sorts of things. One example, I mentioned in the book it in a fairly generic sort of way. But I've seen this scenario play out time. And again, in some of the larger organizations, larger corporations where I've had some visibility to it, it is, as I call it, the deck, the corporate capabilities presentation. It's the here's what we're all about. And those the decks tends to look the same, or very, very similar from company to company. And it tends to be very self focused. And it tends to be not terribly relevant and all of that sort of thing that we can get into as well. But then you get this this disconnect, right. So marketing has worked on the deck for quite some time. And they have a rollout and they have these tools, and it goes to the sales teams. And if at all possible. Within the first week, several of the salespeople have modified the deck, they said well, I don't need slide six, seven and eight. And I want to change this and I want to put something in. So the great consistency, that was one of the goals falls apart pretty quickly. So everyone's coming at this. They're trying to get some business result or some personal result. And they're, I think, well motivated, but they just come at it with this different ways. They have different metrics, they have different language, and different compensation systems.

Kenneth Kinney 13:04

Well, so one of the things that I found, whether it's small business and up are really small businesses, sole proprietors and up anytime a message starts out with a sole proprietor, he or she knows it exactly. Well, they know it what the customer is saying back to them as well. And that's part of what you were talking about earlier, it's not necessarily a sales problem or a marketing problem, or if they're coming from different points of view, different compensation systems couldn't agree more problem is that a customer doesn't care about, you know, any of that they don't care about the sausage making process. To me, they only see one brand, regardless of the channels, regardless of teams, regardless of many silos that people in companies create. So it's so hard for people to start scaling their business to go from that initial message and purpose for most companies. And as you're helping those smaller businesses grow, what do you teach them to help keep that message aligned so that they have the best way to talk about their business, and to help them continue to grow their business and still tell the same message?

Jim Karrh 14:01

Shark you bring up a very good point there. There are, there are a couple of things here one specific to small businesses and one, I think almost anyone who's going to be a messenger for what they do, and for their their organization, specific to small business, this whole thing of what I call the everyday business conversations, the message around what you're doing. Small businesses have an edge here because you can move faster, you're closer to customers and prospects. And so you can be more agile and be more tailored in what you're doing there. So this is an area without changing your pricing without turning your business model upside down. That the smaller, more entrepreneurial, more agile people in organizations can beat the big guys. That being said, All of us have our brains working against us in that we especially I see this a lot with very passionate People subject matter experts, entrepreneurs in the like, sometimes their own passion, their motivation, their good intentions gets in the way of a message, which is really about the customer. And here's the thing, I, one of the things I learned, you know, brain science, we are getting so many more data points here in the last few years, and much as it is served to underscore things that we thought we understood in cognitive psychology, and we're really getting a handle on it. Now, when I was gathering some research for this book, one of the pieces I saw, it was fascinating to me that the parts of our brains that get activated when we talk about ourselves, are the same parts of our brains, they get activated when we have a great meal, or we think about sex we're having, or even some psychedelic drugs. So our brains reward us, they give us little little bits of candy for talking about ourselves, and that spills over whether you're an entrepreneur, you're in small business, large business, those, so we have to push against the comfort of talking about our passion, or what we've done in the past, or the industry lingo, and acronyms and, and technical language that gets in the way of being understood, what so one of the things that I bring, if I'm speaking to a conference, by the way, people who if you go to the same industry conferences all the time, and you're just listening to people in your tribe, it's so easy to get stuck in that language, and every now and then, some ways to make sure you're breaking out of that. So whether you're an entrepreneur or your manager in a, in a big organization, there's a discipline here about clarity of message and habits of keeping clarity of message that, that I find to be very, very effective and necessary.

Kenneth Kinney 16:49

You know, one thing I've done this before with a group that I was just doing a consulting practice with, is I took a group of people in there, and this is the CEO to be quiet. But I asked the people in the room to write down what the message and purpose of the company was. And of course, it was, say 20 different people, it was 20 Completely different interpretations. And not that their words necessarily needed to be written exactly the same way. I wasn't looking for it looking for a Stepford type approach. But right to your point earliest it to me, it's like the joke, when you tell somebody a story, initially, it'd be about a coffee cup. And it you know, if it passes down the line by 20, people, the 20th person says, doesn't say coffee cup, they say, Rubber baby buggy bumper, it's just, it's amazing how, how delineated a message can get. So as I was looking at the 20 different responses, or so I don't know what the number was. But as I was looking at that number of responses, what I noticed, this was eye opening to the CEO at the time, was, there were some common labels, there were some common stuff that you could see like in a tagline that was used over and over. But it really pointed out that everybody is interpreting it, a different understanding of it completely, with me not completely differently, but to a point where it caused concern, because this doesn't happen with smaller companies, for the most part, they all smallish, to a point to where their message is more aligned. But as they grow, and they don't align that messaging, it becomes a real problem, because then becomes a translation to the customer much differently. And then it becomes what we've labeled now is a customer experience problem, which, again, is yes, it's a customer experience problem. But then the Customer Experience Manager, you're trying to figure out, is that a C suites spot talking to the CEO about the message? Or is it somebody that reports to the CMO or CTO, and then there's some sort of weird alignment there. It's just, it's amazing how we've butchered this whole process to really not get the messaging of what your company is, and how that then translates to the agencies you work with to the internal stakeholders and team members. And then how that all works together to speak to the individual consumer who's concerned considering your product or service.

Jim Karrh 19:28

What you observed there is, it's visceral, but it's really common. I've had a number of business leaders will be so frustrated, they say, Jim, if you went down the hallway or went to the loading dock, or went out into the field, and you asked 10 people, you know, what's our value prop and whom do we most servers and I, yeah, who's the best fit customer for us? And and, you know, five of them will give you deer in the headlights and the other five people will give you seven or eight different answers. And so oftentimes we think so So what exactly does that mean to the business? And I think there are a couple, at least a couple of very important kind of negative outcomes from that lack of consistency. One is trustworthiness. I don't know anyone can it that I've worked to that doesn't have an aspiration is that they want to be trusted, or a trusted adviser consultative something along those lines, especially in professional services. If there's inconsistency in what different people are saying about you, then that customer or prospect or client or prospect doesn't know what to believe. So they won't believe very much at all. It undercuts your trustworthiness. The other thing that and this really gets the attention of a lot of CEOs and leaders is scale. You can't scale inconsistent. Exactly. And so building consistency and there are right ways and wrong ways to do it, you can try to shoehorn it I, I've been around at least heard of leaders who will go around and they'll be like giving people a pop quiz in the hallway, can you name our, you know, our mission statement, you know, 20 bucks to the first person who can come up with our eight points of vision. And that tends to not be authentic and conversational, of course, but I think inherently consistency. And as you pointed out, it doesn't have to be the exact same words from each person. We want to be more respectful of that. But thematically in terms of common stories, calm, common understanding of who is an ideal or a really good fit customer for us, what are the benefits, what our customers say about us? What's it like to do business with us, there needs to be a common core of understanding and appreciation of that, for us to build that consistency and dust to build growth.

Kenneth Kinney 21:50

Yeah, and I don't mean it over simplistically, like, somebody has to recite a phrase down a line of people until the same message. But it's not always something as easy as targeting just a b2c type brand, where your product or service, you're trying to resonate that clear message with a person, when you think about how much more advertising we do as well. And a lot of times those advertising campaigns that I've worked on in the past before, have been off message with what the sales or the marketing and customer service team is also saying. And then just add another complexity to that, if it's a b2b client, where it's a longer sales cycle, and even better place to muddy a message along the lines of, you know, 20 or 50, decision makers along with procurement and as well, it becomes quite a big problem. And it's, it resonates with a phrase that I've used at so many conferences, which is the confused buyer says no, and it is a problem with with messaging. So this is an easy question to start because it's the intro to your book, what is the best way for a company to talk or for someone to talk about a business?

Jim Karrh 23:10

At its heart, it's to talk about a business from the perspective of a customer who has a problem. Thank and in build everything back and talking about the problem in the way that the customer would see that problem today. It may be a very apparent problem, like I have a fever. So or I hurt my elbow. Yeah, exactly. More cowbell. Or it may be something that is below the surface, it's, it's causing some sort of symptom and you help them see what's causing it, but you better you better start from the standpoint of that customer. And, and the problem isn't that they haven't bought your stuff yet. By the way, it's it or the lack of you in their life. Exactly. They define it today, maybe talking to a friend or a colleague.

Kenneth Kinney 24:06

Well, and I think one of the things I love is that you you referenced one of my favorite coaches early on in the book, Lou Holtz kind of unpack if you will the story about Lou Holtz.

Jim Karrh 24:18

It was I was looking for some different quotes and I've loved listening to coach Holtz on a few occasions that same hear what he says in the manner in which he says it.

Kenneth Kinney 24:29

Yeah, and I'll do not with a lisp.

Jim Karrh 24:32

I won't try to do a Lou Holtz impression there are others who do it far better than than I do. But and I'm paraphrasing here a little bit with a quote my own book and I can't recite it verbatim but yeah, he basically says, you know, don't tell people your problems. Exactly. Yeah, a lot of people don't care and then you know, most people are glad that you have the problem. Yeah,

Kenneth Kinney 24:53

never tell your problems. Anyone 20% Don't care and the other 80% are glad that you have them.

Jim Karrh 24:59

Exactly. And that's a little harsh. But I think the point is, is very well taken is people are more focused on their own problems. And, and they should be okay, we've got our own survival and prosperity instincts. So it's the problem for a seller for a marketer for anyone running a business is not that you got to make quota. Or it's not that you're not well understood, or you're trying to get your expansion plans going. It's, it's starting from that standpoint of, again, as much as you can get there in the customers language, what the customers problem is, then you can start, you can be very helpful to them, if you can meet them there that is, in many ways a working definition of empathy. And we know how important empathy is in your message in your market approach.

Kenneth Kinney 25:53

From a science a customer connections in managing that message, how can this improve sales and revenue? What about your background at Mountain Valley Water? Take us through what maybe you went through on the brand side as to how that tactic worked to build sales and revenue.

Jim Karrh 26:12

I'll tell you a story about mountain valley that may help frame this and then my experience. I'll tell you, Kenneth, between leading marketing there and then working with a lot of salespeople now, I think there's kind of a natural inclination to bring them together. And and I'll explain how I think that works today best. here's the here's the story about sometimes getting a fresh look at your own business and the messaging that you're sending. So it's brief background for your listeners who might not know Mountain Valley Water is it's a small brands and niche brand. It comes from one source as springside that's protected there near Hot Springs, Arkansas. And it's actually the oldest continuously produced brand of bottled spring water in the United States. I came into this when the category of bottled water was really growing quickly. And in fact, now it is the largest single beverage category in the US.

Kenneth Kinney 27:08

It's the Arkansas Alps version of Perrier?

Jim Karrh 27:13

That's a great way of putting it. I wish I you and I had spoken

Kenneth Kinney 27:16

I'm creating a category. Yeah.

Jim Karrh 27:20

But I came in and we, we were a little bit different. Again, everything came from one spring side, we dabbled in both glass and plastic. We had a very niche, customer base. But we were not growing, this company had just been flat in terms of revenue while the category was going crazy. And you get a lot of these new entrants from overseas like Fiji, that were getting a lot of attention and doing very well. And one of the things that I did very early on is take a look at just the packaging and the portfolio. And some of the messages there. Well, we had on a some of our packages there. There was a label, and the label had three mountains on it. The mountains were snow covered, there was a river running between them, you had these big evergreens around them and said mountain valley spring, bottled at the source in Hot Springs, Arkansas, we were having a management meeting at valuated these and so we've got my my colleagues around the table in the conference room. And one of the things I said is we're looking at our portfolio, we need to change this label. Well, Ken, if you've been around executive types when talking to marketers, and it was, oh, yeah, you marketing folks always want to change the label, you know, wrong with it. And I said, Well, let's be real here. So we have three snow covered mountains with a river running among them. Right. Right. We also are very proud that our water comes from a single spring source in Arkansas. Right, right. Can anyone here tell me where the snow capped mountains of Arkansas Exactly. I've never seen them. And by the way, we have this pure wonderful spring water. We don't want people thinking river water. That's not the thing either. We were undercutting. It was somebody Well, intention years ago, and had this thought of, oh, well, let's call mountain valleys. What let's do these mountains in the valley and river and all that thinking, what that ought to look like, rather than being real about what we were. And why would somebody buy this little random water rather than something that you know is more available on the shelf?

Kenneth Kinney 29:32

Well, that's people in the South who get an inch of snow, and then see that as some sort of blizzard coming through, and it's probably went on

Jim Karrh 29:43

for the rest of America and the world listening to this? Yeah, in Arkansas. If there's even the threat of a quarter inch of snow, it's run to the grocery buy everything she often started burning furniture immediately

Kenneth Kinney 29:54

is the Hunger Games at the grocery store. So

Jim Karrh 29:57

that's right. So From that experience and a lot of the things that we talked about today, what's your common mantras about being customer focused about being authentic and clear and conversational? The the approach in your question was really how do you bring sales and marketing and all these other units together toward that common goal? I coach in work with organizations to be able to bring those people together. And my my focus is, look, if you want people who might call messengers to help deliver that message, you should involve them, or people like them in the creation of a message itself, you will get something that's more clear, it's more resonant, it's more relevant, and you'll build a lot more street cred, you'll build more adoption. Along the way, this will be something that is not coming from the agency. It's not coming from the smarty pants consultant. It's not even coming from marketing. It's coming from all of us who are involved in these conversations with our customers and prospects. And so that's, that's something that the process that I go through for those who want me to help guide them through that process is we create it together. And we get some people who represent those different business units and come together with a more or less common language, and we put it in a playbook. So not a script. But we don't say everybody does it their own way. Because then you're still going to have the situation of the 20 people that you referenced before what everyone kind of understands something different, they say something different. So you really have to involve them, I think in the creation of the message and championing championing that message inside and out as you go along.

Kenneth Kinney 31:41

So Jim, there are no sharks in, in the Arkansas lakes and none of the Arkansas River that I've ever heard of. I don't know of any bull sharks that have swim, swim that far, inland and Arkansas. But I have to ask, since you're on a sharks perspective, what is your favorite kind of shark and why?

Jim Karrh 31:58

I'm no shark expert. But of course, since I've listened to the podcast and knew the question was coming, I think my favorite is the hammerhead. Just because it's so unique. It is kind of like a giraffe or a duckbill platypus. It can't be confused with any other being on the face of the earth. I think my least favorite, though, is the Great White. Not because I've had any, thankfully not had any direct experience. But I remember as a preteen watching the movie Jaws for the first time and that was so freakish that that for a while there, I was looking at it a corner of my eye, you know in the swimming pool to see if there's a dorsal fin popping up.

Kenneth Kinney 32:39

I've been swimming with sharks. It is such a misalignment a messaging that has gone on because of the movie Jaws, which I love. And then all the other crappy movies that were shark related that I still watch, but they are curious creatures, not these just nonstop killing machines that have been portrayed. But I don't go in there. Like I said earlier, I don't go in there with a Cheeto on the end of my hand, either in some barbecue sauce. You know, looking looking to pet him, I just it is their territory, and they're curious, and people have to be respectful of the apex predator in the water. So Well, Jim, it's a special time to show you ready for the five most interesting and important questions that you're going to be asked today.

Kenneth Kinney 33:26

I am I think, all right.

Kenneth Kinney 33:28

So which is more important sales or marketing?

Jim Karrh 33:34

I can't choose between the two of them

Kenneth Kinney 33:35

You have to. Rosemary's Baby.

Jim Karrh 33:39

The reason I say that is I think sales and marketing both serve some other purpose. And, and so what I talk about, and what I help coach to, is to get sales and marketing and other functions and other people toward whatever that growth initiative is. I hope that's not a cop out. But I think that's really the answer.

Kenneth Kinney 33:56

It's a little bit, but that's okay. That was a good answer. That was a good cop out answer number two. So you were a tenured professor before. But you're still teaching, as well today, you know, through the podcast through the consulting practice through helping people do better marketing and sales and communications and all that which which do you value more, as far as your experience teaching, marketing and advertising or working purely in marketing and advertising?

Jim Karrh 34:30

I think the working part involves to help scratch that teaching itch for me. And for me as a there's a disconnect at university teaching for most of it even with MBAs who my my taught many of them is there's no immediate application for what they have. So I like teaching something that people can put to use and they can challenge me as well in terms of what they're seeing out in the field.

Kenneth Kinney 34:53

Really, so you don't need rose petals dropped at your feet. I've worked in higher ed before so I know anybody with a with a doctor title IQ can be difficult inside of the great Ivy covered walls. So

Jim Karrh 35:07

I would rather have the question from a practical question from an executive or a salesperson, then the is this going to be on the test?

Kenneth Kinney 35:17

Great point number three. As somebody who's uh, you know, graduated from the University of Florida with their doctorate in marketing and advertising, Steve Spurrier, or where you live now, and a coach referenced in your book, Arkansas Razorbacks and Notre Dame former head coach Lou Holtz,

Jim Karrh 35:39

I have to say Steve Spurrier. I appreciate coach Holtz and Elliot. But I'm a gator and Steve Spurrier is that rare person who was both a great player and a great coach for the same school for his alma mater. So the head ball coach is number one for me.

Kenneth Kinney 35:58

All right, here's number four from your cmo days at Mountain Valley Water. You live in the natural state. So mountains or valleys.

Jim Karrh 36:08

More valleys, and actually I like you. I like the I like the water. Yeah, so I like to, like the rivers and lakes

Kenneth Kinney 36:14

Ozarks are pretty though. Number five. And the most important question you're gonna be asked today is biscuits or cornbread.

Jim Karrh 36:21

This is a very compelling question. And I grew up in the little town in the southern half of Georgia called Swainsboro. So we had lots of biscuits and cornbread, and like a really unhealthy tasty kind. I won't go cornbread of a specific type. It's the kind that you don't see it much anymore. KENNETH It's you cook it in an iron skillet cook it like a pancake. And, and it's it's crispy on the edges, and then a little spongy in the middle and just deliciously breezy, all the way around.

Kenneth Kinney 36:53

And I love it. Well, Jim, where can people find out more about you, follow your thoughts, learn more how to engage with you and your business and a lot more?

Jim Karrh 37:03

Well, I really appreciate the opportunity this is people can find out about me and get some free resources as well, at Jimkarrh.com, I have an unusual spelling of my last name KRH, I have bought some of the domains of the more common misspellings. If you can get close to it, you'll probably get there. There is a free sample of the introduction and the first chapter of my book that's there. I do a what I call a message manager memo that has some free tips for people who would want to subscribe to that as an email resource. And I would love to connect with anyone, be a sounding board. For them. LinkedIn is my platform of choice. But I'm also occasionally on Twitter. And if you are part of a group accompany conference and association leadership meeting, that this growth message is something that's high on people's priority list. Then get in touch with me we'll talk about maybe some ways to bring that message to you and your group.

Kenneth Kinney 38:02

Excellent. Jim, go hogs. And thank you so much for being with us today. Haters, sharks perspective.

Jim Karrh 38:09

Thank you so much.

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Kenneth Kinney 38:15

So that was my conversation with Jim Karrh, a consultant at DSG, a speaker, a podcast host and the author of the science of customer connections, manage your message to grow your business. Let's take a look at three key takeaways from our conversation with him.

Kenneth Kinney 38:27

First, consistently good everyday business conversations. That's such a powerful phrase to use. Jim breaks it down three ways having a differentiation message having a network of messengers inside and out of the organization and having management habits where they're modeling the message where it becomes part of the fabric of the organization. Three great points. And you've heard me dozens of times on these shows, talk about my point of view of how the confused buyer always says no, I enjoyed this book specifically because in reference to sales enablement, it supports that argument, customers will react better to a consistent message, whether it's part of your advertisements, your salespeople, your leadership, your customer service, all those things together. As he said, it's often because of the different goals of those different departments. But those goals need to focus more on the customer.

Kenneth Kinney 39:12

Second, small businesses have an edge here and alignment. They're more agile and nimble. But then they start to scale. You add on a lot of employees and salespeople and other departments and external agencies. And then that core of your message starts to get delineated in all of the noise created by your brand, and then how that sits in the rest of the world's noise from other brands. If you've got a lot of messages out there that aren't fairly tight, and you control the narrative, then why would you expect your customers to clearly get your message? After all, it's not their job and they don't have time. And all of this, as he said will also undercut your trustworthiness with them. If you're an entrepreneur growing a small business, then you've got to be able to consistently scale that message. Really think about the message as you grow. And by the way, that doesn't mean letting the communications team dictate what you say every time you're speaking In in some way to a consumer, you've got to align messaging goals meeting and problem solving. And if you're a big business, then you've got to eliminate the complexity of telling your story clearly with better alignment.

Kenneth Kinney 40:12

Third, so how do you talk consistently to a customer? Jim says it's to talk about a business from the perspective of a customers problem. Start from the standpoint of the problem of your customer. That's a great point.

Kenneth Kinney 40:23

Got a question, send me an email to Kenneth at a shark's perspective.com.

Kenneth Kinney 40:27

Thank you again for the privilege of your time.

Kenneth Kinney 40:29

So let's go out there and make some connections with customers today with consistent messaging, and join us on the next episode of A Shark's Perspective.

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