****Please forgive any and all transcription errors as this was transcribed by Otter.ai.****

(Music - shark theme)

Kenneth Kinney 0:16

Hello and welcome back to A Shark’s Perspective.

Kenneth Kinney 0:18

Many establishing legacy brands and many entrepreneurs get locked into what's working for them. But how do you initiate change? You may come from a bigger company, or have the newest and greatest idea. But what do you need to do to help move your internal team, it requires a certain amount of change leadership to implement that idea push digital transformation are simply changed the ways we do business with our customers. It's something that comes up all the time in navigating can be one of the biggest hurdles you'll face in any job.

Kenneth Kinney 0:46

Nancy Sherr is the EVP and Chief Marketing Officer of First Franklin Financial Corporation, a 75 plus year old financial services firm with 300 Plus branch locations primarily throughout the southeast.

Kenneth Kinney 0:57

And on this episode, we'll discuss the role of the CMO changed leadership, digital transformation, lead generation, local Facebook pages, Easter egg hunts, loans, Marcia Gay Harden, Sandra Bullock, and a lot, lot more.

Kenneth Kinney 1:09

So let's tune into a CMO with a CSO or chief shark officer as you know me on this episode of A Shark’s Perspectivee.

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Kenneth Kinney 1:24

Nancy, thank you so much for joining us today on a shark's perspective, if you would tell us a little bit about your background and your career today.

Nancy Sherr 1:30

Sure. So I started my career actually, as a journalist, a TV broadcasting major and my first jobs out of school were with local news stations. And actually, when I look back on it, it really was instrumental in developing my ability as a marketer to really be a storyteller, because that's what you do. And also being able to present information in such a way to where you get to the point or the hook upfront. And then you provide the detail on the back end. But after a couple of years ago, that I decided that I really didn't want to move to some small town in the middle of nowhere to get my career going. And I decided to really focus on advertising and marketing. And spent several years mostly in financial services, I took about a 10 year stint in the cable and telecom world. And now I'm back in financial services, all in marketing roles, mostly leading marketing for a product. And then most recently, I took on the role of Chief Marketing Officer at first, Franklin financial, which is a consumer finance company. And what's different about this experience, I think, than other places that I've been is this customer segment is very different. I've had been used to working in the prime and super Prime customer segments. And this is a new prime customer segment. So a lot of the rules of the road. And the things I've learned throughout my career as a marketer have pretty much been turned on its end because this population is so totally different.

Kenneth Kinney 3:13

Sure. Well, so as your role as a CMO, I'm just kind of curious, you know, at the time, we're recording this, you've been with first Franklin for two and a half years, this is something I think about. And I won't say this now that I'm talking to one, but joke about a little bit about the the tenure of a CMO tends to be about that of a running back, how do you look at your own market today with life and tenure of a CMO today and how you're judged and how the industry is judging CMOS?

Nancy Sherr 3:40

So I think within this particular industry, it's fascinating to me, people who come to this company have been here for anywhere from 25 to 40 years at the executive level. And that's such a different way of thinking about things because in marketing and as a CMO, it is definitely much more of a transient role. I think, in this particular situation, the company has not even started to understand what marketing can do for them, I would say in terms of a projectory of where we are, we're probably at, you know, a little bit above ground zero. And we have so much more to go as far as being able to demonstrate the value of marketing that's particular in the consumer finance industry. But I think for me, every day brings a new challenge and I'm not bored. So I'm not really looking to move on because I'm excited by what I am doing and I'm excited about the impact that we my team can make to the organization. And we have seen definitely a shift within the organization as it relates to starting to understand what marketing can do for them. And we have just developed such a strong relationship with our operational partners who, you know, I look that I look at it like we are a service provider to them. And they have really been pleased to see what we can do to help drive the business.

Kenneth Kinney 5:35

And you have what roughly 300 branches throughout the region?

Nancy Sherr 5:40

Yes, 320 branches across six states.

Kenneth Kinney 5:43

That's an amazing statement to think of what you can now do with marketing. What are you attributed kind of to their success, then?

Nancy Sherr 5:52

Yeah, this, this business is very much focused within rural markets. Sure. And the company has been extremely successful. Because it's been truly a face and old fashioned face to face business. Our branch managers are so ingrained in the community, they know everybody and whoever they don't know, they know somebody who knows them. So it's very much a relationship based business.

Kenneth Kinney 6:21

Well, you've worked for some pretty sophisticated brands. I mean, there's several of these that I've worked with, on some sort of either consulting engagement or in some capacity in in marketing and business. But you've worked with JP Morgan Chase, you've worked with Time Warner, cable, Wells Fargo mean, these are pretty large, sophisticated companies that have some pretty well thought out processes and gives them a little more sophistication, if you will, as far as their level of thinking, how do you take what is even a well run small business, if you will, but I'm sort of calling it that way, even a well run family business, rather, is probably a better way of saying it, and be able to come in internally, and help move them to make change. I think that's one of the things that I found difficult in either was a small business or a family owned business, or somebody that's been doing something the same way, as you said, for 40 something years, it's not easy to move the needle internally, it's a lot more, it's a lot easier to move the needle with the customers out there in the world. But let alone try to get somebody internally to understand it, and then accept it and then move forward and fund it with an idea or some sort of leadership change you're trying to enact.

Nancy Sherr 7:36

So what what you just stated is a challenge that I face every single day, and it's probably where I spend 90% of my time is educating the organization, whether it's educating at a leadership level, or educating all the way down to smoke? Well, I would say are what I've tried that the approach that I've taken specifically is tried to find a friendly, so to speak, somebody who is a little bit more open to change. And, and take, take their openness to change, say, Look, why don't we try this? Why don't we see what it does for you. And what's nice about the business is it has been around for a long time, but we have regional operators who are very competitive with each other. And all of a sudden, if you get one little bit of success with one of the regional operators, suddenly everybody else wants to get on board. And we have found we have found some of our operational VPS. Some of them are much more open to change. And those are generally who we start with first. But it follows very fast and very furious when something works. And for the most part, what I would what I would say most of what we're doing is basic block, blocking and tackling marketing 101 stuff that you know, in your core as a marketer is just how to do things the right way. So it's not like we're recreating the wheel, or we're doing something incredibly new, you know, it's what's old is new, and it works. So let's start with that. Let's build momentum. And as you build momentum throughout the organization, you build trust, and you build more openness to change. And that's the approach.

Kenneth Kinney 9:40

Again, it's I find it so interesting that I tend to believe that I'm a fairly skilled marketer. I try to study anything and everything there is on this subject helped make businesses grow. And it's so often that I find that it's a lot more about a basic communication tactic and strategy that way and working with If people then it is opposed to, here's how I get seven more likes on an Instagram post or something, you know, silly like that that doesn't matter towards making real change inside of a big organization. Then, you know, you also know when we talk last week, we were also talking about the digital transformation. I know I made a joke about you know, for a lot of businesses, it's been sort of an analog to digital transformation, talk about that transition. And what you've seen when going from some of these places like Time Warner and Wells Fargo, that most of the time, we're going to be on a more leading edge with technology than even a regional institution with 300 Something branches.

Nancy Sherr 10:39

So I would say, when I first came to the organization, the lack of distribution of approach in acquiring new customers, to me, it just blew my mind. And our lack of anything in the digital space, it just, I didn't even, I didn't know what I didn't know. And instead of trying to do everything that I knew that we should be doing, I had to step back and say, Okay, where are the things that I can demonstrate results in performance, and I can gain momentum. Our, our head, our CEO, had a passion for social media, and really felt that the first place, she wanted the organization to sort of dip our toe in or try out with social media. And, you know, that is not where I would have started, I would have started, you know, in my heart of hearts, I'm a direct to consumer marketer. And it's all about the data and the results and being able to link that back to, in our case, loan volume. And, to me, that was, the place to start for her was more in her heart, because there's a passion for the business. And there's a passion for the customers with the family. And so, you know, I was challenged with, well, let's do this, let's do it the right way, let's utilize best practices. But I also need to be able to create a story for our branches, who in our organization, actually fund all of the marketing dollars. So it's a past group, my budget. So everything that we do needs to be able to turn back to how many loans that I get out of this. And then a channel like social media was definitely a little bit more challenging. So social media is where we started. And being able to link that to results was probably the biggest challenge. But something unexpected happened. And instead of spending our time in marketing, linking what was happening to results, the branches suddenly got behind the fact that they had Facebook page and they could post things, you know, we're in these very hyper local market. Right, right. So the Easter egg counting contest, they were really excited. They could post that on social media, and their customers could put lights on it, make comments about it. So

Kenneth Kinney 13:30

did you have a Facebook page for every branch? Yep. Wow. Yeah.

Nancy Sherr 13:35

Yeah. So yeah, you know, actually managing it was, at first when I was like, oh, that's just gonna be that's gonna be a lot of work. But, um, but actually managing it, you know, from an ad platform perspective, we can push all the ads out. There are some some local, localized marketing that we can do at state level. But we also have I have a person on my team, who part of their job is the branch is sending requests, we screen them for what they want to post on Facebook. And they post everything from the first Franklin coloring book contest to come to the branch and donate supplies for you know, for kids backpacks who are underprivileged, to the Easter egg counting contest. Do you name it and they are extremely creative. And given the size of my team, which is very small and nimble, there is just no way that we could support 320 branches with corporate why promotions every single month around doing something kind of fun and interesting to bring in customers just isn't feasible within our current infrastructure. So this was a way for the branches to feel like they were part of part of the marketing to feel like they were driving customer business. Yeah. And yeah, and I think, you know, instead of my mindset of, well, it's about dollars in loans out, like, it's got to be in this very structured kind of way, which is really against my background. It was, it was a great initiative to allow the hearts of our branch employees to come through, and the spirit of our company, which is really about people and relationships.

Kenneth Kinney 15:44

Yeah, that's such a great point. Because sometimes social media, I mean, should always everything we do should always be focused on the customer in my brain, but at the same time, sometimes the customer is also just the employee, you need to be engaged. And hey, if there's a tool, something as simple as a coloring book contest, or an Easter egg hunt, A, I'll be at it just I would hate to be the person that had to look at 300 Different Easter egg hunt local photos, and, and then put them out there. So that's a lot of tagging. But yeah, well, other than social media, What other things did you run into as part of that digital transformation process that really stood out to you?

Nancy Sherr 16:20

Well, I mean, you know, in the, in the last two years, we've, we've reskin, the website, and your website looked like it was, you know, the, the out of the box kind of website, and extremely outdated. So we were able to kind of modernize that, and, and increase our SEO, and make it a more efficient website. And actually, now we're on our next skinning of it, so to speak, I would call it a refresh, which is even just meant for for more SEO. And the, you know, of course, we went into digital and what was nice is, so we have this momentum behind us with social media. And while the branches were active participants within the marketing, and you know, we were still able to, to demonstrate the likes the shares, the cost per clicks, and you know, even have a little bit of tasteful appropriately, Jen, within social media track that through to applications and loans. So there was some numbers behind it. But honestly, the only the only people that really, the operations weren't about the numbers, they were about how engaged they could get with their pages, their Facebook. So it was more of a check point for us, within marketing, make sure that we were spending the dollars appropriately and optimizing them for the pages that we were looking to see and building awareness. Although the company's been around for 79 years, our awareness is not very high, when you pull our prospects, because they're more than likely people that are branches don't know. So, you know, we we are certainly keeping aware of those types of metrics, but then going into search and display, advertising was pretty, you know, the, the hurdles that I had to go through from a business case perspective, were very minimal compared to pretty much every other organization that I've worked at a lot less, you know, in a smaller organization, you have a lot less people looking over your shoulder, you have a lot, a lot less checkpoints that you need to go through. It's a conversate. You know, I've reported the CEO. And I think, you know, as a marketer, one of I didn't, I didn't know what I didn't know, and coming into this organization. I don't think that the team would be as successful if we weren't directly reporting to the CEO. Absolutely. And I would say, if I were to ever take on another role as a chief marketing officer at another organization, the reporting structure would be definitely very critical, from my perspective, because there's just a lot of red tape and a lot of discussions that I don't need to have. And I don't frankly, have the time to have because of my reporting.

Kenneth Kinney 19:33

Structure. Yeah. And especially if you think about some of the larger banks now today, it's not necessarily has to be the larger ones. So many of the ones that have different consulting teams that are brought in, yeah, then that becomes a whole other mess to deal with. Talk about how you look at the media mix, because we talked a little bit about search and social but how do you sort of look at all of the channels because especially when you're in a local town, I mean, it's very easy to localize everything digitally, but Have you sort of look at that entire mix for 300? Plus locations over an infinite number of channels today?

Nancy Sherr 20:07

Yeah, I would say our strategy as it relates to localization is evolving. With Yeah, when when I came into the organization, we're just doing direct mail. And yes, we do have 320 different versions of direct mail that have a specific branch managers signature, and address and phone number. So we are starting to evolve that process we're getting we're doing media buys and out of home that cover multiple branches, it's much more efficient. So from branch perspective, they're spending less money per branch. And we're able to, in a very fluid way, be able to provide prospects choice and breadth of choice. So you're not just the first Franklin financial in the strip mall, next to the bailo, your first Franklin financial, who has 40 branches in the state of Louisiana. And, you know, is is is a powerhouse wouldn't maybe powerhouse. But, but you know, is is a strong regional player who has more than just one branch and can serve, serve, you know, my needs as a consumer. So we've we've been evolving digital is obviously, you know, we can, in the social media space, we can be very targeted from a geo perspective, as well as in search and display. But our strategy and search and display is to drive customers to, you know, a phone call or apply online. And it's they, you know, have them look at and choose their local branch. So we enable the customer to choose where they want to go versus us telling them this is your local branch. And by doing so, the customer realizes, when they go through the process of choosing a branch, that we have multiple branches within a given area. So we're not just a one, one store loan shop,

Kenneth Kinney 22:22

talk about with it, that face to face interaction means to a banking and financial institution, because you talked about trust, I mean, trust has got to be the most important, you know, five letter word at any sort of financial institution when trying to convince somebody and so much of that. It's almost like a marketing and sales enablement process for how you deliver leads, if you will, to your branches. And that handoff, if you will, between marketing and the person who's establishing that face to face relationship with your customers today.

Nancy Sherr 22:57

So our, our tagline, so to speak, it's although it's not officially is, you know, you're part of the first Franklin family. And when you walk into our branch, our branch representatives treat you like family. When I first started with the organization, before I moved to the home office location, I worked out of a branch. And every single person that walked into that branch, you could just see their body language change, it would come in, they're down on their luck, they needed some help. There. There's a big fear factor that comes into our business, people are afraid they're gonna get turned down. It's a risk. There's a lot of psychology behind that. And you can just I literally saw the physical transformation of a customer when they would walk in the branch representatives would welcome them, offer them some water, let them have a seat, talk about their financial situation, and offer up a solution a reasonable solution that could help them exactly and you could just see, you could see their shoulders come back their heads come up the smiles. When I worked out of the branch, we had customers bringing our branch representatives gifts and baskets and homemade goods all the time. There were the depth of relationship that these representatives established with the customers is not like anything I've seen having worked in the big financial institutions. And with the customer base to you have to think about what is it that my customer base needs? Our customer base is skews older than average. We're in rural towns. And, you know, everybody talks about digital transformation, it's important to trance to have a digital transformation that aligns with your customer and your target base. And when you're working in the prime and super prime lending space, in highly urban markets, the need to have strong digital touch points, fluidic customer experiences within the digital space. It's, it's a requirement, it's not optional. It's a requirement, you have to you have to be able to operate that as a business to be successful. But in a hyper local rural market with the types of customers we have, we do have to, quote unquote, have digital capabilities. But we don't have to be as sophisticated as a Wells Fargo or a B of A or JPMorgan Chase, the needs of our consumers aren't there. And frankly, many of them are afraid of technology, and they don't trust it. So we our brands, representatives spend time explaining the benefits to them, like managing their account online or being able to pay online because a lot of our customers like to come to our branch to pay their bill, if you can believe that. Yeah, we have a very large percentage of our customers who do that, because their friends work in the branch. And when I say their friends, it's not really their friends. But if they feel like they're their friends, and they want to come by and say hi. And that's a different mindset than the big banks who are looking to cut servicing costs, and push their customers to service themselves online. And when you have a base that's willing to do that, and you're not sacrificing customer experience, because they that's what they want to do, then that's okay. But for us in our business, because face to face, has been the cornerstone of our business, we need to embrace that, appreciate it, enable digital capabilities when our customers want it. But it's not a key driver of our business in the way that it is with the large financial institutions.

Kenneth Kinney 27:21

Well, even with the large financial institutions and what they suffer. I mean, it's most of America that what you're describing, it's not a bunch of troglodytes running through a certain part of the country that doesn't know how to use mobile banking. I mean, it's, it's, it's what most America goes through. And I think it's a lesson for all marketers. I wish that more marketers started out in their 20s, not necessarily only at agencies, but maybe started out, in your case at a financial institution at a branch, so that they could really see how to deal with the customer. And never forget those lessons that they will learn. But unfortunately, not enough of us have done that. So you've worked in telecommunications and cable as well compare it how you looked at experience there, versus how you look at it today, in a financial institution, because neither vertical is necessarily known for having just the greatest customer experience in the world.

Nancy Sherr 28:17

that's permanent?

Kenneth Kinney 28:19

Yeah. Yes.

Nancy Sherr 28:22

So um, let's just say you're coming from financial services and the big financial services organizations working in credit card and mortgage marketing, which are really I would say, on the on the scale, in terms of sophistication of marketing, targeting analytics, etc. That's, you know, that's where it's at, from, you know, especially if you're a data driven marketer, like I am going into Telecom, the CMO at the time said, Well, we are actually trying to recruit people from banking, because we want to bring in that sophistication of marketing. The, I would say is your point around customer service, we, when I was at Time Warner Cable, we had the, it's horrible, we had the worst customer satisfaction ratings in the industry and of any other industry that was being rated at the time. And I think as an organization, it really caused us to look inwards, and say, Okay, we were bad, and we know we're bad. And we're going to fix it. And we're going to tell our customers, you know what, you're right. We are bad, and we're going to fix it for you. And it was, we did a whole campaign around to but was really very interesting. I'd say from a marketing perspective to kind of see that transformation and the things that we we did but it is It is an industry that is just not known for its service, whether it's at the point of customer contact, whether it's delivery of the products. And there was a lot of work done at the time to improve our infrastructure and improve that customer experience coming from financial institutions, you know, knowing that that was also an issue, they're coming to this role, I was ready for the poor net promoter scores. And something I mentioned earlier, when you asked me about my background, even though I'm in financial Institute's financial services, again, I feel like consumer finances very different. Our net promoter scores are higher than any other company I've ever worked for. It is unbelievable how high they are. And our customers love us. And they love us because we have a relationship with them. And we treat them like family. And we might not have the best processes and procedures, we may not be as sophisticated as some of the other consumer finance companies out there. But when a customer walks into our branch, and is at the lowest of their lows, and they walk out of the branch, knowing that there is hope, and there is somebody willing to help them. That's, that's what we do. And that's why we have the net promoter scores that we have.

Kenneth Kinney 31:32

So how do you look then at a really lead generation? And you know, is a kind of a twist on that as well. Or as a follow up to that? How do you look at that cross sell upsell opportunity? You alluded to it earlier, but really understanding that you're still needing to drive customers to the bank? How do you look at that strategy behind sort of a lead generation strategy for financial institution.

Nancy Sherr 31:56

So we, like I mentioned, we have very strong customer satisfaction, and the numbers show it, we see north of a 70%, some read, some areas are higher than that, north of a 70% renewal rate with our current customers. So from a lead gen perspective, part of what we do is we remind our current customers that we're here, we do that through your traditional tactics, but when you bring in prospects, it's part of part of that is bringing bringing the prospects in and getting them interested. But the main thing that we want to do is get them in touch with a branch as soon as possible. Because once they have that interaction, whether it started might start on the phone, it might take a little while for them to get in the branch. But what are what are branch representatives do? There's, we can't do that in marketing. Marketing helps drive the opportunity to them, and they convert it.

Kenneth Kinney 33:06

True, Nancy, you're on a sharks perspective, I asked this of all my guests, you're not that far from the beaches in the Carolinas. But I asked this of everybody because you're on the sharks perspective, what is your favorite kind of shark and why?

Nancy Sherr 33:22

Well, kind of as we spoke before, you know, I do not have an affinity for sharks. Although you might be the you're my favorite shark.

Kenneth Kinney 33:30

Thank you. Good answer.

Nancy Sherr 33:31

You're a really interesting guy.

Kenneth Kinney 33:35

Well, let's leave it at that. That was a wonderful one of the best answers I've ever heard. All right. So it's, it's a special time on my show. Are you ready for the five most interesting and important questions that you're going to be asked today?

Nancy Sherr 33:48

Sure, I don't know that my answers will be interesting, but I'm ready for the questions.

Kenneth Kinney 33:52

All right. For number one customer experience in the financial services industry, or customer experience in the cable telecom industry?

Nancy Sherr 34:06

I'd say that's the lesser of two evils.

Kenneth Kinney 34:08

Sophie's Choice,

Nancy Sherr 34:11

Right. I would go with financial institutions, because as individuals, I feel like there's a little bit more on the line from a performance perspective, so people are maybe a little bit more cognizant of the value of a good customer experience.

Kenneth Kinney 34:34

Fair enough. Fair enough. Number two, the beaches of North Carolina or the beaches of South Carolina? You lived in both states. I'm assuming you've seen both.

Nancy Sherr 34:45

I would say South Carolina, but I'm the Miami girl so I'd say Miami two.

Kenneth Kinney 34:52

All right, well, number three. You look like the love child of the two of them but Sandra Bullock or Marcia Gay Harden?

Nancy Sherr 34:58

Sandra Bullock

Kenneth Kinney 35:00

All right, number number four, a personal loan or debt consolidation?

Nancy Sherr 35:11

Debt consolidation.

Kenneth Kinney 35:14

Interesting. Number five, and the most important question that you're going to be asked today is biscuits or cornbread?

Nancy Sherr 35:22

Oh, biscuits.

Kenneth Kinney 35:24

Thank you, somebody that's truly in the South that knows. So Nancy, where can people find out more about you keep up with what you're doing. Learn more about first, Franklin and more.

Nancy Sherr 35:36

Oh, gosh, well, I guess you could find out more about me on LinkedIn. And first Franklin at our website, WWE dot one ffc.com.

Kenneth Kinney 35:46

Perfect. Nancy, thank you so much, again, for joining us today on A Shark’s Perspective.

Nancy Sherr 35:51

Great, thank you Kenneth. I appreciate it.

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Kenneth Kinney 35:58

So there was my conversation with Nancy Sherr, the EVP and Chief Marketing Officer of First Franklin Financial Corporation, a 75, plus year old financial services firm with 300, plus branch locations, primarily throughout the southeast, let's take a look at three key takeaways from our conversation with her.

Kenneth Kinney 36:14

First, she's been involved with something that a lot of his face. And that's how to implement change, you've got this great new idea, but you're coming up against a legacy of thought, if you will, that doesn't move so quickly to accept change. And this is true not only for old companies, but also new ones. When somebody is stuck in a mindset, you spend much more time trying to push change than what the time the actual change takes to implement. And often the internal change is much harder to push than how your customers may change already with you. She said that it's what she spends 90% of her day on and she's the CMO. I like her plan, though, with finding an internal advocate, if you will find an opening, build momentum, and then build trust. That's a simplistic explanation. But it's so often about building momentum in order to make something happen. And remember to that part of this goes to your reporting structure, he may have a great relationship with a boss. But if your boss can't help you make changes, then well, that's an issue to work on getting the ear of someone who can help you make the change necessary. I've screamed and yelled a lot for change many times and then convinced the boss Atomy to accept the change, but then they're unable to push past them and it feels like time wasted. You've got to work through your boss, but just be smart about getting the right air.

Kenneth Kinney 37:22

Second Great point and technology and digital transformation for both employees and your customers and how they're both affected. It's easy to think about digital transformation as one flavor for a tech upgrade. But not every audience needs or wants the same kind of transformation. So make sure not to sacrifice customer experience. As Nancy said they leverage digital transformation to enable digital capabilities when our customers want it.

Kenneth Kinney 37:45

Third, never underestimate what the power of a local social media page can do for your local employees. I love the example of the local Facebook pages for the local branches. Those can be of real value to local employees. Sometimes it's as much about employee engagement as anything else. And Nancy said and I quote, so this was a way for the branches to feel like they were part of the marketing to feel like they were driving customer business. We think so often about the global view of brands, social media, but it's so important that to think global social, especially when you're talking about people and relationships that are there and local.

Kenneth Kinney 38:18

Got a question send me an email to Kenneth at a shark's perspective.com.

Kenneth Kinney 38:22

Thank you again for the privilege of your time.

Kenneth Kinney 38:24

Stay safe, be well and make relationships that count. Join us on the next episode of A Shark’s Perspective.

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