Transcription
****Please forgive any and all transcription errors as this was transcribed by Otter.ai.****

[intro music]
Shark 0:16
Welcome back and thank you for joining A Shark's Perspective. I am Kenneth "Shark" Kinney, your host and Chief Shark Officer.

Shark 0:22
Let me tell you about an amazing sponsor who helps make this show possible. I hope that you'll take a look at Drips, the founders of conversational texting, where they use conversational AI to help you reach customers where they're most responsive, and that's on their phones. And working with major brands like Three Day Blinds, Liberty Mutual, Credit Repair, and Ganesco, Drips is leading the way for some of the biggest brands in the world to improve engagement rates and outcomes for their prospects and customers.

Shark 0:46
And now back to the show.

Shark 0:48
Legally speaking about marketing, what's your responsibility in business when using things like graphics on social or influencers in campaigns? You're going to live stream or have your employees on clubhouse? What are the implications to consider whether it's a legality issue reputation, so it should be the or other important considerations not only for the fines you could get if you violate certain laws, but also for your reputation for your brand or agency. It can be kind of a big deal.

Shark 1:13
Kerrie O'Shea Gorgone is an editor writer, lawyer, speaker marketer, co host of the backpack show with Chris Brogan co host a punch out with Katie and Kerry and host of a classic alternative radio show for village radio dotnet and on this episode, we'll discuss legal mistakes that marketers make career transitioning from a lot of marketing getting an Ann Handley forever tattoo, copyrighted content and using stuff without other people's permission, optimizing those Google Images and then getting slapped with a fine third parties, influencer marketing and disclosure expensive mistakes with bad beach photos, stock photography, live streaming copyrighted music reputation management safe something stupid and clubhouse riding Viking shark patriots and Titans scoring apples and a lot, lot more. So let's tune into Kerry O'Shea gorgona with Kenneth O'Shark Kinney, on this episode of A Shark's Perspective.

Shark 2:01
Kerrie, thank you so much for joining us today on A Shark's Perspectived. Would you please tell us a little bit about your background and your career today?

Kerrie O'Shea Gorgone 2:11
Sure. Let's see. I grew up on Cape Cod and went to law school in Boston. And since then, I've lived in Florida and currently reside in Tennessee. So along the way, I have practiced law, I've taught law, I have been in marketing, and I've taught marketing. And I transitioned eventually into like adult learning and training, as opposed to teaching undergraduate students and graduate students, which I was doing before. And that's sort of where I am at the moment now in in marketing, again, that educational marketing. So my department is the customer content and customer education department.

Shark 2:49
What inspired you to be a lawyer? I've heard your story a little bit, but I don't know if I've ever asked you. What inspired you to be a lawyer.

Kerrie O'Shea Gorgone 2:57
My mom, she was like, be a lawyer. And I was like no. And then I did. Well, in the absence of something else that I clearly wanted to do, it made good use of my talents. And, and there was a lot of things to commend it. I also had a pretty strong mentor, one of my favorite law professors in college, I took his course by accident, because I went down this is like way back in the day before it was easy to register online and stuff it was you had to go down and do arena registration, they called it so they let us all loose like cattle inside the gym. And we had to go wait in lines to register for the so it was a lot easier to like screw up. So there was no line for this one law class. And I'm like, I'll just take this one, I don't care. And I didn't realize that it wasn't business law class I had to have it was a consumer law class. That was like an elective. So it took up one of my valuable elective slots. And I still had to take the stupid business law class. But the the professor was great. I loved him so much. And I love the topic and everything else and we just really bonded. And so I ended up taking him sai Horvitz was his name. I took him for business law one and two, and worked for him at the Consumer Action line that he ran like mediating consumer complaints for the attorney general. And so he had as much to do with me going to law schools anyone and he's the reason I went to Suffolk where I later graduated first in my class, it was like that was his alma mater. So

Shark 4:19
you were in the legal field for several years. I know you've litigated as well. And I've heard you talk a little bit about you saw some legal websites that weren't very good. And then you started making that move. Was that really the inspiration? Because I mean, or did you just wake up one day and know you wanted to be in marketing or how did that transition progress?

Kerrie O'Shea Gorgone 4:39
Oh, okay. So when I was at Bentley University, I was taking business courses. I have a Bachelor of Science in Business Communication, and an MBA in international business. So that's what I thought I was gonna do. I thought I was gonna do marketing in business. And while I was at Bentley, I was working in marketing. So while I was taking law courses because they were required cuz I stumbled into the wrong one. When I was in Arena registration, I was really going into business and marketing. And that's where I was to begin with. What happened was it psi inspired me to go to law school. So I turned down a job offer in marketing and went to law school instead. And once I had done that, what I discovered afterwards while I was doing litigation is that I still needed the creative pursuits that marketing entails, like I was working on the firm website, or I was making videos of like the law firms, reception events and things like that I still needed some of that more creative work to kind of fuel me on a personal level, in a way that the more cut and dry advocacy stuff wasn't doing for me.

Shark 5:44
Yes, a lot of overachieving, though, in education, you get your Jewish, your jurisprudence, and an MBA and I graduated from the 13th grade. So you done well.

Kerrie O'Shea Gorgone 5:56
I mean, you know, the secret is just keep going, and work hard. I used to work all the time, though, I would get up in the morning because I'm a morning person, I just My very first job was at a bakery. So I started as a dishwasher. And by the time I graduated from graduate school, I'd work there every summer done about every job in the place. But long story short, I wake up early and always have. And so I wake up early in law school, do all my work first thing like commute into the city first thing, and then do my classes. And I'd go home and like watch Animaniacs right, and totally screw off the whole rest of the night. Like I just needed to.

Shark 6:30
And now like me, you've got kids, so that makes you wake up early anyway, so

Kerrie O'Shea Gorgone 6:34
Oh, they're teenagers now, though, I mean, okay, if it wasn't for the fact that school requires them to be physically present at 607 45 745 for my youngest, which is stupid, because he's doing virtual, so like, why? I don't know. But anyway, if it wasn't for that, they would sleep much later. My oldest, it's like anybody's guess. Whatever he wants to do.

Shark 6:56
Did you get your tats because you and I both share a love of tattoos? Oh, yeah. Do you get your tattoos while you're in a lawyer? Or was this Before? After? When?

Kerrie O'Shea Gorgone 7:06
No, so I was in. By then I was working with marketing profs, and so I was in training. So educational content and training for adult learners and things like that in the area of business marketing. And I hadn't found anybody I trusted to do my tattoos. That was a reason I didn't have any. I just was like, I didn't like I said, interest anybody. And so I started taking guitar lessons as part of this initiative MarketingProfs had that was like, Oh, you spend five hours a week learning something new. I mean, like, they didn't pay for it, or whatever. But I got to go to I went and took guitar lessons. Everyone's like, you know what you should do? You should learn to code like Christopher Penn was like, oh, yeah, you should learn our Python. I was like, no. So I took guitar lessons, and my instructor had ink. And so I looked at his and his was really nice. But I was like, that's not really my style. But he said, it's his style. So this artist is so good. She takes a photo inspiration or something, whatever you bring her for ideas, and creates a custom sketch based on what you want. And then she places it like a stencil or something on you to make sure the fits right and everything that it's situated in a good spot. And then she does it and she's amazing. So looking at his the only hesitation I had was it wouldn't be my style. But she did that with his style, you know that she did mind my style. So that was later. But not because I was like afraid or anything, just because,

Shark 8:27
well at least we're in an environment where it's it's more normal, if you will to see it. It's not. Oh, yeah, I know that I necessarily would have cared and

Kerrie O'Shea Gorgone 8:35
you're pretty big though. Like it goes all the way around. Yeah, I

Shark 8:38
got a I got a shark. The same way. For the audience who can't see this word. We're taking off our clothes at shorter.

Kerrie O'Shea Gorgone 8:46
Yeah, but no, it's pretty big. And it goes, That one I'm still working on. It's gonna go all the way down.

Shark 8:52
I've got one that says Ann Handley. Everybody writes in

Kerrie O'Shea Gorgone 8:55
Hanley forever, ever. Yeah, in Italy for a while, like next level sucking up.

Shark 9:01
And I'm also gonna put a Cavalier King Charles. So I wanted to talk to you obviously, about marketing and legal and where this crosses, having worked on the brand sides a lot in my career as well. I was really thinking a lot about this since we spoke a few weeks ago. But what do you see as the most problematic thing right now for marketers to consider with everything going on today and in marketing and how that has a legal implication anymore?

Kerrie O'Shea Gorgone 9:28
That's such a broad question. Let me think the same old problems that have always existed continue to exist, which is the the desire to use somebody else's stuff without permission. You see it all the time. They're like, this is great. This is gift it or this meme. This is really popular right now. We'll just throw that on social. We'll use it in our marketing. And it will, you know, will kind of have this winking complicity with our audience like see, we're cool. We're cool. And you can't do it because it's not your content and it sucks and everything but you can't So that that comes up over and over. It's kind of like a perennial problem. The newer problem is influencer marketing where people are still trying to figure out like how they can even incorporate influencers into their marketing. And moreover, the if they even think about disclosure, how to do it without how to put it, how to do it appropriately, like early and often, and clearly, and so the influencers, on the one hand want their campaigns to be successful. They also don't necessarily want people to feel like they're getting barraged with advertising all the time, because then their audience might just take off and do something else. But at the same time, if you are doing marketing for people all the time, and that's what your feed is like, you have to be transparent about that. So that's a little bit of a sticky situation, too. And that's a little newer, like the copyright thing is kind of ages old, it's as old as time. It's like an age old problem. The influencer stuff, I think, is a little different now because of who influencers are like it used to be celebrities, everybody understood, if you see a celebrity on a Wheaties box, like they got paid for that everybody gets it. It's not the same as you see, you know, somebody was a mom blog or something or a parenting blog, I shouldn't say just moms, but a parenting blog, like you might not know that the stroller they're pushing they got for free. It's like a whole different world in which we operate,

Shark 11:17
at least from borrowing, graphics, memes, gifts, anything else like that. What do you recommend to somebody if they do make the mistake of putting something on their social or their blog post or something, because I think a lot of people find this out after they get their hand slapped.

Kerrie O'Shea Gorgone 11:35
Yeah, and hand slapping can be very, very expensive, very expensive. So the number one thing is never ever look for look on Google for images to accompany your posts, social posts, blog posts, or anything, anything that can could be construed as marketing. So you don't have to show that you made any money from it. Like most people don't make money directly from a blog or whatever it's content it like feeds your, your lead generation funnel and all that stuff doesn't have to be direct, don't use Google Images, anywhere. Some people actually optimize their images for Google search, just so they can find them where you've placed them later and sue you. So don't do that. Or they just send you a letter and demand 1000s of dollars, and you have to pay it if you can afford to get sued. So don't ever do that. If you've already been slapped, you're gonna have to pay the stupid thing, you're just gonna have to, you mean you can get a lawyer and they can try to like negotiate it down for you. But they've got you dead to rights. If you use somebody else's copyrighted content without permission. It's a strict liability type thing. So that you're kind of screwed with. But make sure you go through your site after that point, take down anything you've put up in the past that maybe you didn't know better. Now, you know, better. If you have social feeds that have other people's copyrighted stuff, like take it out? I know it's sex, believe me. I do. It's it's one of those things where what you can do on a personal level, for personal purposes is wildly different than what you would risk as a business or on behalf of a client. Oh, yeah, I've been

Shark 12:59
through it before small business that had used someone else's images back when bots were starting to come up and they get a letter and a fine and all that kind of good stuff. And

Kerrie O'Shea Gorgone 13:09
$4,000 When crummy beach photo on a blog post cost this poor agency like $4,000 Well, actually, it was worse. So it had gone up on a client's website, they placed it on a client's blog. And it was $4,000 demand. And they had to pay at the agency did because their client got this nasty cease and desist and they was totally legitimate. But it still sucks a lot. And then that doesn't do a lot of good things for your agency's reputation either. So and it wasn't even a good photo. Kennedy. It was a crummy like nothing photo. So you can do better by yourself.

Shark 13:42
Exactly. Well, I'm fascinated with this subject, because I've got a lot of images on my own website that all come from reputable sources that are paid for but I hate stock photography absolutely hated. However, the one thing that too mostly to that degree Getty or I stock or whoever it is Canvas, you know, a decent, well known firm, I'm not even talking about Pexels, Pixabay and Unsplash. And where that could go. But just having that license is worth sometimes. And I hate to say this, though, from a legal standpoint, if you're on the brand side, it almost becomes more important to have that than the authenticity. And then you get a lot of phony images that I hate looking at, but at least I know I'm legally covered.

Kerrie O'Shea Gorgone 14:25
Well, you can also do work for hire like you can have employees take photos in the course of their job, or like Stonewall kitchen, they have it like they have invested heavily in their video and photography, resources. Like they have people on staff that that's what they do. And you can really tell their stuff is dynamite. And it's totally custom. It's all theirs. And it's a worthwhile investment. So if you're a brand and they're not like a conglomerate, you know, they mean they're not Disney or anything, but they recognize the value in having their own intellectual property. And so I would definitely think about that like having someone on staff to do that. things for you?

Shark 15:01
Well, in my career, I've worked a lot in data and a lot in performance marketing. So I knew the legal teams well, for, you know, for, especially with data and how that was handled. But when you think of the mindset of me, you have a lot more of a legal brain than 99.9% of the marketers out there who were thinking about this with a little bit of a mindset shift, they probably aren't thinking about this 99% of the time anyway.

Kerrie O'Shea Gorgone 15:25
It doesn't make me popular Kenneth. I'm the person at the beginning of the webinar, who's like, I'm reasonably sure you didn't pay to license the song you're playing right now.

Shark 15:35
Right. But it's like the principal's office to be the corporate legalese. I tried to figure out how to avoid the principal with stuff like this. And I'm, I'm wondering if you have advice, in general, for marketers as to how they start thinking about marketing from a legal perspective, other than just don't borrow content for Google?

Kerrie O'Shea Gorgone 15:55
Yes, well, that's actually a pretty big part of it, you want to make sure that you have a right to use anything you want to use in any of your campaigns. So if you do that, then you're already overcoming one of the most common and major obstacles, legal departments run up against like, they're not trying to tell you no all the time, but they don't, they don't want to receive exposure. So that's one thing. Another thing you can do is make sure that your influencer marketing efforts that they're very well structured, that you have agreements on file that you use with people that explain what's expected, like, hey, if we work with you, you need to disclose that you're partnering with us. And what that means not just say, you know, partnering might not even be clear enough, might have to be like, I got this stroller for free. Or, Hey, I'm being paid to talk about the stroller. But what I say about it is what I want to say about you know, so you can kind of word it however you want to word it. But make sure it's clear that people understand they need to disclose with every single post as an influencer on behalf of your brand that that relationship exists. So if you've already got that factored into your influencer marketing campaign that will take care of a lot of the objections that might come up. Because legals gonna be like, What about disclosure? How are people going to know we have exposure here, and you're like, we're on it. Like, everybody's gonna know that they're expected to do that. And we're going to tell them how and we're going to give them the tools and all this stuff like templated language if we have to, for disclosures and all of that. So make that part easy. The other thing to look at is if there if you want to incorporate like live streaming, or anything that's kind of impromptu lawyers get really nervous about stuff like that. So make sure that you've got a plan in place like you don't necessarily have to storyboard every shot of your live stream, it's probably not realistic. But definitely clear the background of wherever you're going to be, to make sure that you're not going to be seeing anything private secrets, or client information on like a board behind you, or, you know, people's computer screens visible in the background of the office, stuff like that. So like clear the area in which you're planning to live stream, and then make sure you're not like picking up music that's copyrighted from outside or something, try as much as you can to control the environment. And that goes also for people kind of passing through. Like if you're in your corporate office or in your home, or in another location, you can control the lawyers are gonna have a lot less to worry about than if you want to do something like Grand Central Station, and you're gonna have all these people who have not signed releases who have no affiliation with your company walking around. So it's another thing to think about to just plan your stuff out.

Shark 18:18
Yeah, it's another reason I'm using non branded palm trees. Because I just I'm tempted to hold up a Dr. Pepper can and then get if I was on the corporate side right now, it's the kind of stuff you can't do. So

Kerrie O'Shea Gorgone 18:31
the I work for app fire, they gave me a Tumblr, yes, I show you my app, fire Tumblr that I'm thinking,

Shark 18:37
well, with third parties, too, you know, so many of us in the marketing space, work as consultants or for agencies, and they're all hate you. I'm gonna use air quotes that I get tired of hearing extensions of your team. How do you recommend working with third parties who aren't going to understand the legalities because they'll go produce something and you can give them guardrails, you can give them brand guidelines. But then ultimately, you got to make the legal team happy, as well as deliver an effective marketing project or campaign.

Kerrie O'Shea Gorgone 19:08
Well, a lot of what's going to make the legal team happy is also going to make for good content. So trying to hide the ball from your audience about like sponsored content or influencer content that's been paid for, that's not really good for you, or them or anybody else. Like eventually that stuff comes out, and it looks bad for everybody. So I sort of sell it that way. Like, hey, let's keep it all aboveboard. You need to trust people to make their own assessment of how much weight to place on your opinion, given the fact that we paid you some money. I think everybody gets that, like bloggers and influencers, they need to make a living, everybody gets that they are capable of making their own assessment of how much weight to attribute to your opinion, now that they know that you got a trip for free, or that you got money or that you got a free stroller or whatever. So I actually think that lawyers and their interests align a lot better with the audience or consumers and their interest, then you might at first thing, I mean, that's what the laws are designed to protect his consumers, right. And so we don't want to kind of pull the wool over their eyes, that's not something you want to be part of. So that's part of it. I think the other part of it is just looking at what you're trying to create. And the more thought you put into any content or any marketing you create, the better the end result is going to be. And so looking at it from a legal standpoint doesn't make it boring or generic or worse, it just means that you've put in some thought into how you're going to execute this, how you're going to mitigate mitigate risk. I mean, that's part of it. But also, you know, what do we actually need to do? Because some restrictions actually breed creativity. So you're like, Alright, fine, we can't do it this way. Because you'll see too many people in the background, how can we structure this? How can we set this up, so that we have more control over the environment, and that ultimately makes for better content, because you don't have as many kind of snafu or things that go wrong or like, you know, so I just think that anytime spent planning is time well spent. Whether you're thinking about legal things, or about marketing generally

Shark 21:07
agreed. One of the things I've been thinking about since I signed up on the app. And I'm curious what your thoughts are. Even more so than live streaming. This one? gives me some Whoa, what

Kerrie O'Shea Gorgone 21:19
are we talking about Tinder? Grindr. What are we looking at?

Shark 21:24
Because everybody in their grandmother kept saying that it was going to explode once we got brands on their shirt, having run run reputation management and worked for some brands that were driving 10s of millions of customers. The last thing that any corporate counsel ever wanted to know, was Johnny or Susie said something stupid on clubhouse. And now it's stickier than a tweet that disappears to some degree. And there's, you know, there's there's an audio factor around it, the consulting or the agency world, we don't really necessarily have to think of it quite the same way as the brand who's got the big logo that everybody's buying from. And I'm interested what you think about clubhouse from a legality standpoint, because it's to me, it's just a minefield, even though I do enjoy it.

Kerrie O'Shea Gorgone 22:15
So I don't know that it's any better or worse than Twitter or any other social media platform. But you just you can't afford to hire morons. Like, you need to hire people who have who are articulate thoughtful human beings. And you have to accept that sometimes they're gonna say something that comes out wrong or out of context sounds wrong, or sometimes it's stupid and wrong. Like that happens occasionally. So I would say be prepared for somebody that's in your employ, or somebody that's working with your brand to say, like a stupid thing, occasionally, because that happens, right? But there's like stupid things. And then there's hate speech. So obviously, you don't have any toleration for that for hate speech, like anything that's anti gay or racist or sexist or things like that. But then there's that. And then there's like, some kind of insensitive thing that was like, whatever that out of context, send it back. You know the difference. So don't hire morons. That's number one. Number two is to make sure that you understand any platform you're trying to participate in. Don't send marketers into clubhouse to start dialoguing with our audience. They're like, nobody gives a rat's. Don't do that. Go and listen. And then if you have people that work for your company that are a natural fit for the space, and are already there something okay, maybe then that's okay to have them kind of fly your flag in there. But somebody is going to record stuff because somebody always is recording stuff they have been since the beginning. Whether it's legal or not depends, like what state you're in, and all of that, but doesn't really matter. You know, if it's legal or illegal, that they recorded it because once something is recorded, and out there, it's recorded and out there. So yeah, I mean, I don't give people a lot of primers on social media before letting them loose. As employees of a company. It's one thing if they're running your brand account, but if they're out there just being themselves, and they're politically aligned with you in some way. You like it, you just can't hire morons, it's basically it. I mean, you can't get you can't put locks on your employees. The same way a country can put locks on its citizens like then it was wriggle out. So you just have to be like, they're good people.

Shark 24:23
I agree. I just I think I'm waiting for the time when somebody says something stupid, and it gets picked up in the news somewhere, because it's something that created a cancel environment. The way social is now with canceling everybody. It doesn't matter what they say that can get you into trouble. And that's just that's kind of sad for the world we live in. And now anyway,

Kerrie O'Shea Gorgone 24:44
I mean, it's kind of tough. So it's sort of like the modern day equivalent of shunning. You know, like when you would do something that the community at large disagreed with and they would shun you or whatever, but that used to only happen for really big things. And I feel like it happens for like anything, you know, typically, but there's a difference. And everybody knows the difference between saying something that's overtly racist and saying something dumb. I mean, most people can tell it's not like, after the last couple years, it's not like I have immense faith in humanity, but I'll go that far as to say people know the difference between like actual malice and somebody just saying a stupid thing once in a while.

Shark 25:20
We'll Kerrie, I ask this of everybody that's been on my show. Not everybody's lived in the Cape Cod area, but I'm going to ask you, what is your favorite kind of shark and why? You're on A Shark's Perspective. You work with a guy famously got a picture of him riding a Viking shark.

Kerrie O'Shea Gorgone 25:38
That's Yes, Chris Brogan logo, so yeah, that might be my next tattoo. No, I'm just kidding. I do like that one though. I think probably the Hammerhead because it's just so funny to look at like the eyes on either side and stuff and I just always thought when I was a kid that that was really cool. I also like the little tiny one so the the Tiger Sharks trying to remember which one so your ships are not tiny. They're not well, there's there's one that's smaller, and

Shark 26:04
they're really small. Yeah, so cookie cutters up let sharks

Kerrie O'Shea Gorgone 26:09
I would have remembered if it was cookie cutters, I think was that but I was at the the New England Aquarium and they have a pretty pretty good like Shark exhibit or whatever. And that I like the little ones. They probably

Shark 26:23
either Bamboo sharks or little nurse sharks in there with the lead Nurse Shark sounds right. Yeah, they they I've seen some huge nurse sharks but they usually at aquarium she found a lot of Nurse sharks, because they when they come with a raise and they get along pretty good.

Kerrie O'Shea Gorgone 26:37
I like the Hammerheads I wanted to like run around from one side of the tank to the other that have turned their head and like

Shark 26:43
Yeah, well Carrie, it's a special time in the show. You're ready for the five most interesting and important questions that you're gonna be asked today. I will do my level best. Alright, number one, and Hanley or Chris Brogan. I'm just gonna ask anyone that we talked earlier, I'm not gonna do that to you, I promise. Good Froot Loops or Apple Jacks?

Kerrie O'Shea Gorgone 27:07
Oh boy. Froot Loops, but only because they have multiple colors. They taste the same pretty much.

Shark 27:14
Not bad. Alright, number two, your guitar player tailor made or Martin?

Kerrie O'Shea Gorgone 27:20
Oh, gosh. Tailor Made.

Shark 27:23
Yeah. Can't beat a tailor made acoustic guitar. Alright, number three. The New England Patriots or the Tennessee Titans.

Kerrie O'Shea Gorgone 27:32
Oh, come on the New England Patriots. Like, I'm sorry. But I'm from Massachusetts. And if you don't root for the local teams, you get kind of stoned out of town. Now, CeCe Chapman would disagree with me because he's been a Dolphins fan for years, even though he still lives in the New England area. But, you know,

Shark 27:48
did you become a Tampa fan when Tom left?

Kerrie O'Shea Gorgone 27:52
That's funny. No, I didn't but only because football doesn't mean like all that much. To me. It's just you have to root for the local teams. I actually routed for Alabama college football when we were in Georgia. Yeah, because I was like, I didn't want to lose. And a lot of the conversations that took place down there were about college football. So I was like, alright, so if I want to be part of this community, I have to learn to like talk the talk. So I learned a little bit about college football and read for Alabama, I forget what they call those bandwagon fans or something, I guess it was

Shark 28:25
the former CMO of the University of Alabama has been on my show. She's a personal friend. And I used to tell people, including her all the time, I try I would encourage every child to go to that school because at least once every four years, your kid's gonna go out of there with a good degree and probably be part of a national championship. So you just have to listen list live in Tuscaloosa for a while. Alright, number four. Because I know this about you. I did a little bit of homework. Oh, baking or coring apples.

Kerrie O'Shea Gorgone 29:01
or baking for sure. I love baking it's kind of meditative for me like it's, it's more like science than art. Cooking is like art. Baking is like you have to put exactly three quarters of a teaspoon of baking soda in this thing or it's like all going to go wrong. So you can't think about other things while you're baking. Which is why I like it. It's like meditation

Shark 29:20
but your superpower is coring apples. I heard

Kerrie O'Shea Gorgone 29:24
coring apples, I do it quickly and try to injure as few people as possible. Yeah, but I am very fussy about Yeah, I'm a little fussy about the getting the core out cleanly and making my slices even.

Shark 29:39
Okay, alright, number five. And the most important question you're gonna be asked today is biscuits, or cornbread.

Kerrie O'Shea Gorgone 29:45
Oh my god biscuits, obviously,

Shark 29:47
especially now that you're in the south. So

Kerrie O'Shea Gorgone 29:51
it's actually in our town. I think a store that sells only biscuits, like all different types of biscuits. That's every day.

Shark 29:59
I know it is So, well, Carrie, where can people find out more about you keep up with what you're doing. You're doing a lot of podcasts you're on. You're working with Chris Brogan on the backpack show, which is fantastic. I'm starting to give away all the places they can find you. But where they find out more about the Carey Show,

Kerrie O'Shea Gorgone 30:16
what kind of my hub is Carrie dot show? That's my website and you can find out all the different shows I work on there. Like I'm a DJ at Village radio.net classic alternative radio show. I do the weekly now weekly video series with Chris called the backpack show. It's all about business success, and finding insights from unusual places. So I do that. And of course I do fun things like this with you and I'm full time over at fire but you can learn all about me. I'm like carry gorgona on all the different platforms even like ello because I signed up for all of them. Yet I did it like when they don't go anywhere. So I mean I'm not like active over there, but I'm active on Twitter at Carey Gorgon and LinkedIn and carried out show is my main spot.

Shark 30:59
Awesome. Carrie, thank you so much for being with us today on the sharks perspective.

Kerrie O'Shea Gorgone 31:03
Thanks for having me. It's it's fun.

Shark 31:11
So there was my conversation with Kerry O'Shea Gorgone, an editor, writer, lawyer, speaker, marketer, co host of the backpack show with Chris Brogan co host a punch out with Katie and Kerry and host of a classic alternative radio show for village radio dotnet. Let's take a look at three key takeaways from a conversation with her.

Shark 31:27
First, the big problem that she continues to see is using copyrighted content without permission. It happens all the time. Don't download and use google images that are not in public domain you'll get your hands slapped with some pretty painful fines you'll spend all that time optimizing and imaging and guess what a bot will crawl and find your mistake whether it's personal a company or agency on behalf of a company an influencer etc. Don't take the risk trust me it's worth an audit. The newer problem for you to think about is influencer marketing and how to do it clearly and transparently. The example she gave is great when in a campaign where a mommy blogger uses a stroller but needs to address that they got that strollers for free and then has to be disclosed.

Shark 32:07
Second, I know this firsthand. It's important to have a discussion and an understanding with your own legal team if you have one carrier mindsets that they don't want to tell you no but they do one need to know if you have a right to use something in your campaigns to influencer marketing stuff must include disclosure information, and three put a plan in place for live streaming think about the surroundings, what will be visible with private info copyrighted music etc.

Shark 32:32
Third, oftentimes what makes the legal team happy will often also make for good content. I love this point. Share my visit, lawyers are also taking the time to think of the consumer thinking through this likely may mitigate some risk, but it also may help you to focus on creating better content.

Shark 32:50
Got a question? Send me an email to Kenneth at a sharks perspective calm.

Shark 32:54
Thank you again for the privilege of your time and I'm so thankful to everyone who listens.

Shark 32:58
Thank you to my sponsor and the amazing team at Drips.

Shark 33:00
Please consider writing a review and let me know your thoughts on the show.

Shark 33:03
Stay out of legal trouble and join us on the next episode of A Shark's Perspective.
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