****Please forgive any and all transcription errors as this was transcribed by Otter.ai.****

AJ Harper 0:00

Hi, I'm AJ Harper and you're listening to a sharks perspective

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Kenneth Kinney 0:21

Welcome back and thank you for joining A Shark's Perspective. I am Kenneth Kinney, but friends call me "Shark". I'm a keynote speaker, strategist, a shark diver host of the show and your Chief Shark Officer.

Kenneth Kinney 0:33

So you want to write a book. It's a lot easier to get one published today. But regardless of how it's published, there are a lot of bad books out there. And like a lot of business cards, they get thrown away because they weren't worth reading. How do you write a must read book that moves the needle, not only for the reader, but also for you.

Kenneth Kinney 0:50

AJ Harper is an editor in publishing strategist who helps authors write foundational books; a writing partner to business author Mike Michalowicz; a ghostwriter, who has worked with newbies to New York Times bestselling authors with millions of books sold; the head writing coach for Heroic Public Speaking; and the author of "Write a Must Read: Craft a Book That Changes Lives - Including Your Own."

Kenneth Kinney 1:12

And on this episode, we'll discuss how to write a must read book; mastering various writing formats; being a ghost writer to emerging from behind the curtain as an author; a reader first philosophy; books as business cards; keeping up with publishing standards in a self publishing world. articulating your core message editing listening to your inner trolls, a nice go shard Ghostbuster biographies; other Harper authors; Neil Simon; Les Brown; Brene, brown; and a lot lot more.

Kenneth Kinney 1:37

So let's tune into AJ the writer with KK the shark on this episode of A Shark's Perspective.

Kenneth Kinney 1:48

AJ Welcome to A Shark's Perspective. If you would, please give us a little background on your career to date.

AJ Harper 1:54

Sure, so I am currently a publishing strategist, and then developmental editor. And I teach twice a year a book workshop for authors who want to write a must read book. And before that, I was a ghostwriter for 10 years specifically for prescriptive nonfiction. So books that make things better, like your business, your marriage, your body, your spirituality, whatever your relationships. And I also am known for working with Mike McCalla wits, who is together, we've written nine books so far, we're on number 10. This summer, who is my writing partner on all of those business books. And I'm also had writing coach for heroic public speaking, which is found by Michael and Amy port.

Kenneth Kinney 2:44

So I first knew of you through my in his books, but then I learned about you through heroic public speaking. But I think unfortunately, AJ, you need to start working with some people that people have heard of, because I mean, after all, you've also worked with these characters like Les Brown and Mark Victor Hansen, and Brendon Burchard. And he, these are some pretty impressive names that you've worked with in your career.

AJ Harper 3:06

Well, it's true. So you know, to keep that in perspective, I was a cog in the machine. It's not that I have a relationship with I mean, I have probably more, more time with less. But you know, when you're part of that whole machine, I'm the editor working on stuff, you know, yes, there's cachet to working with those people. And I did those things. But a lot of people I worked with, I can't tell you about our name, because of Fort Knox. But as an editor, I did work with a lot of notable thought leaders. That's true.

Kenneth Kinney 3:38

Well, I worked with a lot of fortune 200. And I'm taking credit for all of their success. So it's pretty much pretty much the same, to be in a cog in that wheel. So you wrote plays. Also, I know you've scribe speeches, and you've ghost written books, and now you're an author on your own as an author, what is your favorite format? And why in you're not allowed to throw in Haiku or any poetry but as far as plays and the way we do storytelling with plays and theater, and books and speeches, what's your favorite format?

AJ Harper 4:06

Oh, gosh, you really putting me on the spot. I love so many different formats. I love mastering the different formats. I really think I'm just a sucker for fiction though. I'd love a novel. I love to just get wrapped up in it. It's so funny. You mentioned I'm an author too. I didn't even say that would introduce myself. This is because I've been behind the curtain for 17 years and I'm still getting used to having my own book.

Kenneth Kinney 4:32

So the business card the way you refer to it in the intro, you talked about writing exclusively for these different authors and in this development stuff, and you reference this as a better business card racket that dominated the industry at the time and it still does. And it created a drive thru mentality about books. I've got a quote this You said, I imagine what the author is driving up to the menu and books to go in ordering their debut. I'll take a 250 page business book Tony Robbins style With a sight of Brene, brown, hold the action steps and key superspeed that I needed in seven minutes, not 10. I love the whole excerpt. But you say that a book is not a business card, and people throw a business cards away. And that's so true. I know, there's a lot of bad authors as well. But because of real retailers like Amazon, the gates in the walls are down now. And that gives people more possibilities and opportunities to get a book published quickly, just get a book published in general, that does add to the stack of chocolate ice cream cone books out there, put it that way. But I have a friend who's written nine books nine as a fairly impressive number, considering the undertaking it takes to not only write a book, but to balance it with other work stuff and their promotional aspects. And you know what no one's ever heard of him. And to your point about writing a better book, how does someone properly approach this, so their effort writing a book, or their end result isn't just something that gets thrown in the trash, like a business card?

AJ Harper 5:57

Well, thanks for bringing that up, because I am on a mission to get better books in the world. And I think the first step is to just decide, I'm not going to do that other way. And because the gatekeepers came down, it became less, less expensive and easier to Self Publish, and hybrid publish. It's like we just tossed out all the traditional publishing standards. And that's not a good idea. So I think just if I could just inspire people, okay, I'm not going to do that, I'm going to actually write the best book, I can. Not everybody can write a classic. But I actually think you can write A must read book, even if you don't think you can, and haven't had experience writing a book, if you just make a simple shift to focusing on your reader, and not just at the ideation phase, this is the this is the key distinction, but the whole way through so every page is focused on reader experience and delivering on a promise to them. And when you do that, you up level any book you were gonna write whatever the length, whatever the topic, but first you have to decide I want to do that. So that's, that's the first part.

Kenneth Kinney 7:16

First step is admitting you got a problem. So what were your goals in writing the book because now that you're not ghost writing as much and that you're you out in front of the curtain? Everybody's going to come to you and say, will you help me go straight this book now?

AJ Harper 7:30

Well, I've been out of the ghost for I mean, I do work continue to have a partner and Mike McCalla wits, because I love him. And because we have a great creative relationship. That is fun for me, right? I'm invested in it. But I haven't been a ghostwriter for about five years. Now, that just burned out. So. So people know, they still sometimes asked me if you know, I'll get a few inquiries. Now, five years later, I have great ghost writers on my contact list, and I moved by send them forward. I love teaching authors how to do this. Because once I figured out how to take what I did, my methods and transfer them to people in a way that would actually work. That just became my obsession, just making people aware of, you know, ideas, mindsets, and frameworks and tools that could help cut through all that confusion about how to I write a great book. And since it's working for my students, I made the book because I just wanted it to be available to as many people as possible who maybe couldn't afford my class.

Kenneth Kinney 8:43

Have you ever written a book or ghost written a book that you found was killer that didn't cut through the promotional noise, because obviously, the way we push and promote and publish books is so much different than it was a decade ago, or even

AJ Harper 8:56

for sure many, too many to count, actually. And the thing is, you need that must read book to really catapult yourself to the kind of sales most people want and the experience most people want, simply because if a book is a must read, people tell other people about it. It's really honestly that simple. But there is the component of the author really needs to be all in on getting the word out.

Kenneth Kinney 9:22

So let's say you've got great content, would you write a book differently stylistically today than you would have a decade or a decade plus ago, after all, I mean, that's a blip in time. But social media didn't exist when, you know, Tolstoy or Hemingway or any of those were trying to push out books with the AJ of today. Right? The same Mike makellos Profit First in the same style that with Mike as you would have today versus not that long ago, but it's just it's continuing to change.

AJ Harper 9:54

Yeah, the answer is no, because I don't focus on that I focus on And who is the reader? What do they want? What's standing in their way? And in Mike's case, what is Mike now that can give them what they want. And then we just focus on delivering on that promise by the end of the book. That's it. We don't worry about what everyone else is doing.

Kenneth Kinney 10:14

Perfect. So let's dive in a little bit on those subjects you write about connecting with the ideal reader? How classics are reader driven, elaborate a little bit further on that for people who are approaching a book right now.

AJ Harper 10:26

So I'm not I mean, I'm one of many people who says focus on your ideal reader. I think the challenge is people don't really know how to do that. And how do

Kenneth Kinney 10:35

we say the same thing happens in marketing, we talk about serving people, yeah, speakers talking about serving audiences are serving the people in the audience. And until it becomes about them, unfortunately, more than it does about the audience sometimes. So I love the conversation.

AJ Harper 10:50

Yeah. So you know, in, in I, it's, I shorten that to read her first, which is a philosophy, but it's also a craft. And it's first getting to know them, but not like a marketing avatar. It's really honestly, hearts and minds. So it could be different demographics of people, it could be, you know, circus performers, and soccer moms and CEOs. But if they have the same thing they want and the same perceived problem getting it, then they're still your demographic, it's more about what's inside and what's outside. Sometimes the conditions in which people live really do matter. And shape the book, but very often, it's more about, I want this thing, I can't get this thing. And how can I get this thing? And so understanding that on a really deep level, how do they talk about it? What do they think about it, where they feel about it? What are their worries and concerns? Basically, the psychographics, which I'm sure you talk about, is is where you need to start. And then crafting everything based on that the whole way through.

Kenneth Kinney 12:01

I enjoyed the section on crafting. And I'm curious, how should we approach going about crafting our game changing core message? Because I think for me when I was thinking through this, and I've heard conversations with other people, it's very interesting to watch people who maybe find a way to articulate that message. But then it turns out, it's a little bit of a different message, and it changes their core.

AJ Harper 12:23

Yeah, it's hard. So first, let me just manage expectations for for anyone listening, it's not easy, we have a tendency to lean into an elevator pitch, or trying to sound sexy with a tagline, or a promise, that's one of the most common I get is when promising it's not actually any of those things. It's the foundational truth on which your whole book is built. And so it's not everything you want to say it's that thing that hinges, right, so you got to get this so you can get all the rest. And then I take it to the next level, I really push people to make sure that message is transformational on its own. That's the key. So if I say my core message for my book is a book is not about something, a book is for someone, you don't even have to read my book, if you can just shift your mindset from thinking about what's my book about. And still in start thinking, who's my book for and letting that guide you every step of the way, your book will automatically be better or in Mike's book profit. First, its traditional accounting methods are killing your business, take your profit first. If you don't read the book, you can still start taking your profit first and make a change. So that's the distinction, can a person actually start to make a change just from hearing that. And it actually works like magic because people, mice, when I get my students to start sharing that publicly while they're writing the book, it is amazing, the doors that open for them. And yes, it does shape the book. But it also allows you to speak with confidence about what you're writing, which is a huge factor in actually getting the book finished.

Kenneth Kinney 14:06

So you talk about committing to the promise. And I love that you talk about making certain that people commit to a promise that they can deliver. And I thought that message tied back nicely to a later part of the book as well, where you mentioned making sure your book actually works. Define what you think an author's promise should be to their audience.

AJ Harper 14:27

So it's goes back to understanding your ideal reader and what they want. So how much of that can you actually deliver? So it has to be a promise that is in alignment with them, so they actually want the promise. So that's number one. And number two is can you actually deliver it within the confines of the book? Not someday. So we make these pie in the sky promises and I think it's because we just don't know better or because we're not that confident about you know, market. Let me make this big promise. Or sometimes it's just because we want promises sounds we want that for folks, it just comes from pure altruism. But the thing is, if you can get a person to move them, if you can move the needle for a person by the time they close the book, and that includes their participation, participation, so they have to read it, if you have exercises, they have to do them. If they have action steps, they have to do them. But let's say they comply, then they should have there should be a change by the time they actually close it. And so there's two pieces to that. It challenges you to think how could I deliver on the promise I want to deliver? And that automatically up levels your content? Because now you're thinking, Oh, I have to do it. So what else could I put in this book? To make? Sure. And then the second part is it also causes you to be reflective and say, Maybe I need to take it down to something that I actually can say definitively, I can do.

Kenneth Kinney 15:57

So let's talk about filters. What are the three questions that we should use to filter our content?

AJ Harper 16:04

Great question. So we've already talked about the three, you know, foundational elements of writing a must read, which is ideal reader transformational core message and a promise you can deliver. So then it's easy, it's just, you think consider content. So you have a story you want to include, you can ask yourself the three questions. Will this help me connect to my ideal reader? Will it help me support my core message? So prove it show? It's true, right? Help people understand it? And will it help me deliver on the promise? And if you can just get one? Yes. Then it probably goes in the book, or at least you get a maybe? And if you can't get one? Yes, one? Yes, then it goes somewhere else.

Kenneth Kinney 16:42

So trolls later in the draft section, you talk about killing your inner trolls, which is something I'm working through right now, on my own book. How do we go about doing that if these trolls also help us write a better book? I mean, after all, you say the reader first is a troll killer. Yeah, you know, you get to the point where you're either listening too much or too little to your inner voice in your inner troll.

AJ Harper 17:06

Well, I mean, the trolls are, you know, we usually think of inner critic as being super nasty. And it's actually you know, we have dark days, we might believe the things that that nasty troll says, but actually, it's easier to manage that enemy, it's more of a known enemy. The real problem are the sneaky trolls that I call the reasonable shoulder trolls. They're just pleasant. And they just have a nice voice and whisper in your ear about all these really practical, reasonable reasons that you shouldn't work on your book. So they say things like, gosh, you have been at the gym in a while, or you really need to do more billable hours. Or you should probably think about this longer, you know, you should probably take some time to just ponder this, you know, and or they say things like, wow, there's two books on your topic already. And maybe you should just pull the plug on this one and write something else. And that's nice. They're nice. And you say, yeah, maybe I should, but that's actually a troll to. They're the ones that kill all the books.

Kenneth Kinney 18:10

So I'm curious. You have a great chapter in there later about editing. Yeah, somebody that was several tours is several in that section. How does somebody like you go about approaching editing with your own book, as opposed to all those who work with others on

AJ Harper 18:26

the same I follow the same methodology I teach, which is honestly it's a it's hard

Kenneth Kinney 18:32

to put yourself in the catbird seat though, with with, Oh, I

AJ Harper 18:35

love editing, editing is so much fun. It's my favorite. I would rather edit them write a first draft any day, any day, and I love to be edited because I've been edited by all sorts of editors at all sorts of publishing houses. And it's fun. I enjoy the process. Because I'm, you know, when I was a playwright, I had to deal with intense criticism. And it just made me very just stoic about it. So now I just treat it as information. And I either find that information useful or I don't, but I don't take it personally.

Kenneth Kinney 19:09

So who are the nonfiction authors? Not named Makayla waits, for example, that you read in a joy

AJ Harper 19:17

um, aside from my students, which I would you know, I would sit here because I love them so much. I would just plumb their books all day. I'm a big fan of Steven Pressfield which you can tell from reading my book I'm promise I'm not a stalker. I'm

Kenneth Kinney 19:34

at an event in Nashville. I read though

AJ Harper 19:36

I went to the event in Nashville and pay good money to go to that event. And in fact, a barely even spoke to him but he did endorse my book, which he almost never does. And that was a day where I ended up crying in the Lowe's parking lot. Because when I got I was waiting for a microwave to the curbside, you know, for them to put it in my car. And I got the email where with endorsement and I just started crying. And the poor little young teenager who was put in the microwave was like, oh, ma'am, um, are you okay? Good, I promise it's good. Um, so my gosh, um, but Steven Pressfield for sure. If you talking about books on writing, I mean, you have to read on the moths, Bird by Bird. But there's a lot of newer authors writing really great stuff. And, and on writing, for sure. But just in general nonfiction, I'm, I'm more of a fan of reading, just random stuff, stuff I liked. I think as a creator, you have to read stuff that's outside of what everyone else in your world is reading. So random history things or stuff about sociological this or that. So I'll just pick things that I don't know anything about, just so I'm getting my juices flowing. You know,

Kenneth Kinney 21:04

if you had to guess it average, what's the average length of a book that you would write? Or co write?

AJ Harper 21:11

Oh, I don't even know. I mean, back when Mike got his deal. Or Pumpkin Plan, our minimum word count for delivery was 85,000. And that, and I you know, sometimes it's 50 Sometimes it's 60. I think right now we're at 1675. I never know what it's gonna be. That I think the more important thing is, like I said to just don't worry about it so much. Just try to deliver on the promise. And then if the book turns out to be 30,000 words, and you did that totally cool.

Kenneth Kinney 21:44

Well, AJ is this of all my guests. And so I got to ask you, what is your favorite kind of shark and why?

AJ Harper 21:52

I don't have a favorite. How about this? What kind of shark doesn't eat you?

Kenneth Kinney 21:56

How about the Australian for you? This was just for you. The Australian Ghostshark? Okay, also known as the elephant shark, and it's, it's an it's a very friendly show.

AJ Harper 22:08

I've seen pictures of that. Yeah. Okay, I'm gonna go with that one

Kenneth Kinney 22:12

that wouldn't that would work. So if I had one of them ready for you. So better than anything you'd find in the York area anyway. Well, AJ, it's a special time the show? Are you ready for the five most interesting and important questions that you're going to be asked today? Excited? All right. You've authored many styles in your mind is that this book is not for someone writing a book that is fiction, but let's play a fictional game. Run two plays and books, Barefoot in the Park by Neil Simon or To Kill a Mockingbird by AJ Harper, or sorry, bye, bye. Harper loves our well there's a Harper in it. So

AJ Harper 22:46

yes, I know. It's a classic and I shouldn't say that, but I have to say Barefoot in the Park.

Kenneth Kinney 22:53

Okay, fair enough. Harper Lee was one of my favorite authors.

AJ Harper 22:58

I just mean this is a very, it's a very difficult choice you're giving me but Barefoot in the Park is the reason I started writing plays, so I have an emotionally attached.

Kenneth Kinney 23:07

Alright, so number two, would you write a near perfect book, or several books that are run below but that are really, really good.

AJ Harper 23:18

Oh.....

Kenneth Kinney 23:19

Let's talk about your legacy.

AJ Harper 23:23

Ah, gosh, I think if I could help more people with the really good books, then I would do them really good books, because it's really about the ripple effect of change. So I'd have to go with that one.

Kenneth Kinney 23:37

Good way of describing it. All right. So you've been a ghost rider. And we're going to talk about Ghostbusters. This is an obvious, obvious transition. If you were writing a book about any of the Ghostbusters, then who would you want to write about which book? Would it be the book for Dan Ackroyd? Or the book for Bill Murray?

AJ Harper 23:56

Oh, Dan Aykroyd for sure.

Kenneth Kinney 23:57

Why?

AJ Harper 23:58

So I just the Bill Murray character is so wild. And I'm afraid to opening that Pandora's. nervous about that?

Kenneth Kinney 24:08

Yeah. Great. Great. All right. Number four, if the quality is exactly the same, the quality, the content is great. Self Publish, or traditional publisher?

AJ Harper 24:21

Oh, that's totally based on an author's priorities. So that would be about another 10 minutes of conversation. But ultimately, it's what do you what are the outcomes you're looking for? But also what are your resources in terms of time and money? And then also, how much control do you want to have? So you have to consider these factors. Credibility is another factor and distribution.

Kenneth Kinney 24:46

You've made that more complex than my small brain.

AJ Harper 24:49

Yeah, it's so complex. So it's hard to answer, but I think the main thing is don't decide it's not black or white. It's think about what matters to you, and then make an informed decision.

Kenneth Kinney 25:01

Okay, number five, and I don't think this one will be quite as complex.

AJ Harper 25:05

Okay?

Kenneth Kinney 25:05

The most important question that you're going to be asked today is biscuits or cornbread.

AJ Harper 25:12

Biscuits, biscuits. I do love cornbread but biscuits. Okay. You're just asking the heavy hitter question.

Kenneth Kinney 25:20

Absolutely. You can't self publish a biscuit. I mean, so. So AJ, where can people find out more about you get a copy of the book, keep up with the courses you're teaching and more.

AJ Harper 25:33

So you can go to writeamustread.com. For more info about the book, you can order it where all ever books are sold in multiple formats, including audiobook and you can learn more about me at AJ harper.com.

Kenneth Kinney 25:45

Awesome. Thank you very much, AJ, for being with us today on a shark's perspective.

AJ Harper 25:49

Thanks for having me. It was a blast.

Kenneth Kinney 25:56

So that was my conversation with AJ Harper, an editor and publishing strategist who helps authors write foundational books; a writing partner to business author Mike Michalowicz; a ghostwriter, who has worked with newbies to New York Times bestselling authors with millions of books sold; the head writing coach for Heroic Public Speaking; and the author of write a must read craft a book that changes lives, including your own. Let's take a look at three key takeaways from a conversation with her.

Kenneth Kinney 26:20

First, I seriously feel like I'm getting to cheat by having her on my show, as I'm writing my own book, it offers me a lot of great reminders, she reminds us that you can write A must read book, if you make the simple shift to focusing on your reader, not just at the ideation level, but all the way through with making that promise to them. Whether now in the past or the future, she focuses on the reader and delivering that promise, just like what I preach on focusing on the people that we serve. In this case, it's the reader with the ability for everyone to get a book published reminds us that the gates are down but getting rid of all the publishing standards is not always great. Lots of bad books out there are many that are very forgettable authors that are forgettable. Don't write that one. Join her on a mission to get better books in the world. It's not easy. Just tackle it one page at a time. I'm looking forward to reading your great book.

Kenneth Kinney 27:07

Second, one of my favorite parts is her focusing on delivering the promise to do that. Understand your ideal reader and what they want. Acknowledge that they want the promise but also that you can deliver this promise in the book and not later on down the road. move the needle from the start of the book to when it ends. She says that it challenges you to deliver. So you're somewhat forced to uplevel on your content, or at least bring it down to what you can deliver. deliver the promise.

Kenneth Kinney 27:34

Third, something I talked to a lot of people about, and I'm curious that way is I asked people what they read. I asked her about what she likes to read it. It's really worth reading something other than what your focus is all the time. If it's Google Analytics, grab some Shakespeare or if it's content marketing, grab some Hemingway. If it's advertising, think grab some Tony Morrison. Don't only grab books that are written by other marketing nerds like me. If your focus is on marketing, keep your perspectives fresh, and help yourself look at your world a little differently. It may hopefully help you later see things with a new perspective.

Kenneth Kinney 28:09

Got a question? Send me an email to Kenneth at a shark's perspective.com.

Kenneth Kinney 28:13

Thank you again for the privilege of your time.

Kenneth Kinney 28:15

Please consider writing a review and letting me know your thoughts on the show.

Kenneth Kinney 28:18

And always remember, you can't self publish a biscuit. Not a clue what that meant, but join us on the next episode of A Shark's Perspective.

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