Transcription
****Please forgive any and all transcription errors as this was transcribed by Otter.ai.****

[intro music]
Shark 0:16
Welcome back and thank you for joining A Shark's Perspective. I am Kenneth "Shark" Kinney, your host and Chief Shark Officer.

Shark 0:22
First let me tell you about two amazing sponsors who make this show possible.

Shark 0:26
Let's talk first about inbound from marketing to sales, commerce to CX, Invoca's active conversation intelligence platform enables revenue teams to create better buying experiences drive more leads, and increase revenue trusted by top brands like Dish Network, Mayo Clinic, Mutual of Omaha, and ADT, the Invoca team is doing some amazing work in turning conversational data into automated action to enhance digital touchpoints in human interaction.

Shark 0:52
Next, let's talk about outbound. I hope that you'll take a look at Drips, the founders of conversational texting where they use conversational AI to help you reach customers where they are most responsive, and that's on their phones. And working with major brands like Three Day Blinds, Liberty Mutual, Credit Repair, and Ganesco, Drips is leading the way for some of the biggest brands in the world to improve engagement rates and outcomes for their prospects and customers.

Shark 1:14
Thank you to Invoca and Drips! And now back to the show.

Shark 1:17
Your experiences and expertise can make a profound difference in someone else's life. And often that can become a business built upon your stories and experiences. But is it profitable? And are you taking the steps even doing something as simple as for many of us applying real Legion math to generating customers and leads? Are you testing to see what works for you and not just following groupthink ideas that push you only in one direction? So if you're out there marketing your genius Will someone pay for what you have to offer. Nicky Nash is the author of market your genius how to generate new leads, get dream customers and create a loyal community. And on this episode, we'll discuss marketing your genius coaching and consulting looking at your experience holistically down with OPP, why marketing can be like dating the profitability of what you have to offer, the mad scientist framework, naughty by nature's greatest hits, social proofing, lead gen math, shopping for books maybe at Bed Bath and Beyond, and a lot lot more. So let's tune into the founder of the genius profit society with the founder of the genius shark society on this episode of a sharks perspective.

Shark 2:26
Nikki, thank you so much for joining us today on A Shark's Perspective. Tell us a little bit about your backstory and your career journey thus far.

Nikki Nash 2:32
Oh, my goodness, well, first, thank you so much for having me on the show. You're most welcome. I'm so excited to be here. And my background is, you know, like most entrepreneurs a bit of a windy road. But I'll point out some highlights. I went to college for English, after a brief decision that I wasn't going to be an actress like I thought I was going to be because I'm like, I don't know if I could make money doing this. And throughout my English kind of career, I decided that I wanted to be a journalist. And so I left college thinking I was going to be a journalist and maybe be an anchor on TV and took a

Shark 3:12
suite. Your degree was English or journalism.

Nikki Nash 3:15
It was. So my school didn't have a journalism specific degree, but it was English. But then we kind of made up genosha sources. And yeah, and then I interned, interned at journal journalism at TV stations, and their newsrooms and stuff like that. Yeah. And I thought I was going to be a journalist. And I took this summer program at NYU called the summer publishing Institute. And they teach you the editorial side of the business of journalism and publishing, as well as the marketing side. And I fell in love with all the marketers, and they're such great people. And so next thing, you know, I was interning at instyle magazine right out of college, doing this paid, and turn ship until a full time position opened up within kind of like Time Inc, ecosystem. And I started working in publishing, switched to advertising and was a media planner buyer. And I kept looking for the job that was going to keep me fulfilled, and made me feel like I was gonna make an impact in the world. And so I left advertising to go, what we call client side, and I worked at, I entered at Coca Cola and Atlanta, when I got my MBA and then took a gig at Intel. And what I loved about Intel is it was the first time where I felt like all of my different degrees and interests came together because I was in charge of digital and content marketing for Intel. And it was at a period where they were specifically looking to connect with consumers and products to like people who buy Apple products and Samsung products and places where their chips were inside and try to increase the demand for those products. So that you know, they would have to buy more chips from Intel. And after a couple of years, I found out that my aunt was diagnosed with ovarian cancer. And we found out our realize that it was genetic, because that's how my grandmother passed away. And my mom tested positive for the gene. And I just said, You know what, in between the time that I had to get tested, and when I found out my results, I said, I don't want to work for somebody else anymore. So I set out to be an entrepreneur, and really have been trying to figure out that wonderful world of entrepreneurship ever since.

Shark 5:27
Alright, well, you now have this new book market, your genius how to generate new leads, get drink customers and create a loyal community to questions. What was the inspiration for the book? And who is the book intended to serve?

Nikki Nash 5:38
Yes, so I, when I started my business, it's almost like I forgot that I knew what the heck I was talking about, you know, like, I forgot that I knew marketing, do that every day. And so I kept kind of trying to navigate entrepreneurship, hiring experts and coaches and consultants to tell me what I should be doing. And what I realized is that I was chasing all of these, like marketing messages, like you can live the laptop lifestyle, like all this crap that like, was not what I wanted. But it's what I convinced myself I wanted, because everybody on their mother was talking about it. And what I realized is when I stopped trying to do what everybody else told me to do, and I started marketing, what I knew was right and doing what I call, like, testing, like a mad scientist, and I said, Hey, I have this hypothesis on what's going to make my business successful. And I'm going to test and validate it, like a scientist would if they were trying to, you know, invent something, or come up with something. And through going through that process myself, and then with my clients and customers, I was like, Whoa, there's something to this. And so I wrote this book specifically for, you know, the entrepreneur that is out there, really probably selling their experiences and expertise, whether they're a financial planner, or you know, a doctor, a lawyer, a coach, a consultant, a creative, but who's like, Hey, I have been building this business doing a lot of what other people have told me to do. And from a marketing perspective, I'm not getting the results that I expect to get at whatever level they're at. And so I wrote this book to help them create their own marketing plan that is in alignment with, you know, what their skills and like, what their skills and proof points are, and have some true marketing principles into it, so that they can consistently get new leads and consistently get clients that they actually want to work with, and create their definition of success for themselves and their business.

Shark 7:37
But you primarily serve female audience, right?

Nikki Nash 7:40
You know, what it is that I, I do, but it's more for from the standpoint is that? I think I just attracted a larger more female of your community. So my Yeah, so they're more of my community. So I say things like keep it simple sister, you know, like, and then I, I'm like, are for the Jensen the audience, sir. So it's like, it's, it's a bit of a mixed audience, but primarily women tend to be attracted to, to my message and my vibe.

Shark 8:08
Well, early on, you tackle the topic of earnings for coaches all over the globe, which I found just a really refreshing Look, why did this subject interest you? And how does that intertwine with marketing your genius, because you talk about a lot of expectations people have as coaches that are probably a lot off than what they thought.

Nikki Nash 8:26
Yeah. So I really kind of had while I was writing this book, I had to rewind the clock and put myself in the shoes of what was life like for me, you know, three, four years ago? And what are the things that I wish somebody was transparent about? And so I started remembering how I felt where everybody was like, I'm in Bali. I'm in Tahiti, I'm in Toluca, I'm like, on the beach, essentially. And I have all these magical clients and customers, and everybody seems to be making six figures, seven figures, like everybody, it felt like to me, and I'm like, well, that just can't be true. Because statistically, you know, that such a small percentage of people hit six figures in like the coaching consulting industry, and even smaller percentage hit seven figures. And so many people are talking about revenue. And I'm like, well, let's dive into this a little bit more. How much are people really making? And is that revenue? Is that profit? Is that booked business? So often people talk, you know, oh, I have I'm a six figure coach. And we dig a little bit deeper, and they've maybe had six figures worth of accounts receivable, but they haven't collected any of it and you don't know how many people are going to default. That stuff. And so I really wanted in this book to be super transparent, from my experience about like, hey, here are the numbers that are out there statistically, you don't have to feel like you're behind because everybody seems to be marketing, six, seven figures. And you know, and I'll honestly, who cares about The money why don't you focus on what makes you happy and what you're naturally good at and lean into that and market that and use that as your message. Because not everybody wants to have a six or seven figure business. Or even if they do, they may not even know what the heck that means. You also cover this, I believe in chapter two, with how to uncover your expertise looking at roughly was a dozen ways or so at a high

Shark 10:22
level. Explain how someone gets there by defining their expertise.

Nikki Nash 10:26
Yeah, you know where this came from? And I'll totally answer your question. But where this came from, is when I started my business, I went, I have a background in marketing, I worked outside of Fortune 100 companies, I worked at tech startups. And that's what I knew. And I'm like, well, then the logical thing for me to do is to start a marketing consulting business. But the first version of my business made me miserable. Like, I was not at all happy, I didn't love what I was doing, who I was doing it for, it just wasn't in alignment. And what I started realizing is that just because I had a career in something, doesn't mean that I literally have to replicate that and turn it into a business. Like, there are things that I learned during that I that experience, I have different skill sets. So I really encourage people to look at not only what they know, but what experiences have they had in life, you know, maybe they've dealt with, you know, addiction or fear or like the inability to speak on stage. And they transform that, like, what are different experiences that they've had? What are the stories that they can tell? What are the skills that they have? What are the things that are just innately them that people are attracted to that you don't even realize is marketable? What are the things that come easy to you, so I really encourage people to try to look holistically at who they are and what they can bring to the world and and look at what would make them happy from building a business as opposed to going well, I worked in accounting at this other company. So I'm going to start an accounting firm, maybe you hate accounting, right? So why do you that

Shark 11:58
makes total sense? So let's say that someone has defined their expertise from there, what's the path to figuring out if it's profitable? And how does someone then make it profitable?

Nikki Nash 12:08
Yeah, you know, the first thing I always encourage people to figure out is not so much do they believe that somebody needs or could use what they have to offer? For accountants? Come on? Yeah.

Nikki Nash 12:21
100%, but like, do, I'm like laughing, I'm like, do we know but I'm with you.

Nikki Nash 12:29
But you will somebody pay for what you have to offer. Because there are tons of ideas that I've had in the world and like, oh, my goodness, this would make the world a better place. But if nobody's going to pay any money for it, then I don't have a business, I have a hobby or potentially like a nonprofit, or maybe not even a nonprofit, because then somebody's still paying for it. And so when I say pay for it, it could be the end user, but it could be like the government, it could be corporate, it's like who's going to fund your product or service, like who's going to really pay for it so that it can consistently sustain itself? And so I encourage people to sit down and think of Okay, if this is what I have to offer, and we're going to package it, who would actually pay for it, and then brainstorm and then test that. Ask people maybe offer something, see if you have something that's sellable, and do your own version of market research to figure out okay, not only did I figure out that this product is sellable. But is there enough of a market? Like are there enough of these people that would buy my product or service to build a sustainable business? Because if I build something, and only one person buys it, and I've tried to sell it over and over again for 12345 years, and I got one person to buy it, it was my cousin, it might not be a viable product, right? It might have been my family member was helping me out. Right?

Shark 13:52
Well, so in chapter five, you can bear marketing to dating. Explain that concept, if you will. And let's make sure you uncover the reference as well, with how you might be down with OPP; organic, paid, and partnerships.

Nikki Nash 14:05
100%. So, one of the things that I've I really feel is happening right now, and this could be because I'm very immersed, immersed in this coaching consulting industry, but sometimes I feel like people forget that they're dealing with human beings. And I'm like, Hello. It's a human being like I'm talking to Kenneth right now. He's a human being, I'm a human being, we're having a conversation. And I think so often people are like, I need clients, I'm looking for my target audience. And it's almost as if they're dehumanizing the person they're speaking to, or that they're just a number. And when you think about dating, dating, you're like, I'm looking for a partner, I actually want to get to know you. Because I want to know if I'm right for you, and you want to know, if you're right for me, or vice versa, you get what I mean? Like we want to know if we're a good match. Right? And I think there needs to be more of that infused back into business. And so the way that I teach marketing is that if you think of it just like dating, you have this moment moment where it's like, Okay, well, I know the type of person that I would like to be my partner, where would this person hang out? Right? How am I going to connect with that person when I was in my early 20s, I lived in New York City, and my friends and I, we would go out, and we would choose this one bar that we would always go out to you because we're like, this is where our person is like, this is the type of place they would go to. And we would show up. And then when we saw somebody of interest, we try to capture their attention. And you want to do the same thing. Like, I would maybe smile at them, believe it or not, I was very shy growing up. It's like you try to smile, maybe I'd accidentally bump into someone, but you want to metaphorically come up with your same version of that online? Like, where are your people? How are you going to connect with them? How are you going to stop them from scrolling? If it's on a social media platform and capture their attention? Right, then how are you going to spark a conversation, maybe they slide into your DMS, then how are you going to exchange contact information so that you can keep the conversation going, and ideally, go on a first date. And the goal of the first date is the second date, and so forth. And depending on what you're selling, that dating period, could be two seconds. And it could be you know, like a year, you know, if you're selling something that is like $100,000 to an individual, they may or may not be willing to make that decision very quickly. So you have to kind of know what the average, like a period of time that somebody needs, nurturing before they buy, date them for that period and make an offer. And so that's what just like dating looks like it's going through those phases. And in an earlier phase of like, just like dating, I tell people, typically, there are three ways to get in front of your people, right. And that's where OPP comes from. So if you're down with OTP, I have a lot of musical references in this book and pop culture. But that stands for organic paid and partner, as you mentioned. So it's like, Am I going to organically connect with someone online? Or maybe at a networking event? Am I going to pay to play like on an advertising or sponsor an event? Or am I going to partner with another organization? And maybe they bring me in, and I speak on their stage? Or maybe I have them as a JV partner or referral partner? And so there's, you really have to think like, how am I going to actually get in front of my folks, I'm using one of those three methods is the first step.

Shark 17:23
In chapter eight, you talk about running your business with some mad ma D science? What is the mad scientist framework? And how should we be testing that for implementing this for our business?

Nikki Nash 17:36
Yeah, you know, one of the biggest problems I've seen from entrepreneurs or why they're like, hey, my business isn't generating consistent revenue or consistent leads, is that they're not consistent, persistent and probably patient with what they're doing. And so what has really helped me is to run my business, like I'm a mad scientist. And so I come up with my hypothesis, which for the purpose of my book is like your marketing plan. And then you test and validate it. And so I do what I call experiment cycles. And I'll say, Alright, six times a year, eight times a year, you know, four times a year, you get to choose, I'm going to run this experiment to test my hypothesis. And so to do that, I say, you know, to simplify this, it all falls under the mad scientist framework, as you mentioned, which is make a plan, that's the M, activate the plan, because so often people make a plan, and then they keep making the plan and making a plan and making the plan. I'm like, No, you have to actually implement the plan, activate that plan, get it out into the world. And then you adjust the plan based off of the results that you got. And then you do it again. And so it's really this, this idea of, Hey, I'm probably not going to have a million people buy my product with my first event or webinar, or the first time I speak on stage, right, like you're going to get better and better and better over time. So if you can infuse the mentality that you're going to test something and validate it, and tweak it based on the results, then you're going into things knowing that it's going to be an evolutionary process, as opposed to just going, I've got one shot, and everybody on their mother has to, you know, do whatever it is, I want them to do sign up for my list, buy my product, and you know, okay, I'm going to test this out, ooh, that didn't land. I'm gonna try it again, and so forth.

Shark 19:22
I'm trying to think of this. I've not really read of this much before, but you wrote about it late in the book. How are you building out social proof as a coach, mentor advisor, because I really enjoyed that too. Very few people really talk about that from an entrepreneur standpoint.

Nikki Nash 19:38
Yeah. You know, one of the things that I believe is so powerful when you are marketing and selling kind of your services and your knowledge is to have social proof to have testimonials and reviews and case studies and, and people that are like, Yes, I have tried their system and structure and it's frickin amazing and I'm going to tell you about it. So what I really encourage people to do is to create a process and a system for making sure that the people that go through their product, like what they had to offer and are willing to tell their everybody and their mother about it. And, and you can capture that. And so I have a friend, her name is shamika Thompson and I interviewed her on my podcast, and she calls it a power page, which is a proof of work page, where she's like, I capture all of the testimonials that before and after of my clients videos, and she puts it all on a page. So that when somebody wants to, you know, see that what you're saying and doing and bring into the world is magic. There's a place that they can go and they can see themselves and the people you've worked with, and it helps them make a decision, yes or no, they'll go yes. Okay, this really feels like the community or the product or the tribe that I want to, you know, belong to? Or Heck, No, it doesn't. But having that social proof can have a profound difference. And helping people make a decision to choose yes or no to buying whatever it is that you're selling.

Shark 21:07
Well, I absolutely love in the last chapter that you applied some religion, math, as well, as you warned readers that you were applying math, when looking at customer lifetime value. I try and try to get more people to look at it. I don't care if it's a large brand or a solopreneur. But talking about how you're doing that also as a coach, mentor advisor.

Nikki Nash 21:27
Yeah, you know, it's one of the things that baffles me how many coaches that I've hired that never once had me look at?

Shark 21:34
Well, did you manage some Legion efforts in the past?

Nikki Nash 21:37
Yeah, I've managed them for startups, and then for my own business. And so that's partly why, yeah,

Nikki Nash 21:44
but which I love you. You know, it's

Shark 21:46
I mean, I drove lead gen for years. And when I apply this to individual stuff, a lot of people that are in this space, have no clue that it's all great to them.

Nikki Nash 21:56
Yeah, and I guess, because I grew up in that world of running lead gen and, and even working at startups where they sold physical products or apps where we had to look at, you know, the customer acquisition costs and all this other stuff. It's, it's normal for me, and I'm an English major that likes math, I've always liked math. And so I really felt that this was an important part of the book, because I feel like not enough people talk about not just knowing your numbers, but actually knowing what numbers to look at and what it means for your business. And so at the end of the book, I'm like, Alright, guys, like, you need to figure out how much it costs you to acquire customers so that you can make better decisions, right? Like, if you know, Oh, my, some people are afraid like, Oh my gosh, it's gonna cost me $100 per lead. I don't want to do that. But if you're if they're buying $100,000, right, like, it might be an all honesty worth it for you. But you have to know your numbers, you can't look at things in isolation and make decisions, you have to really understand how numbers relate to one another. And so looking at how long, or how much it costs to acquire a customer, how long a customer will stay with you. What how much money a customer is worth to you, knowing those numbers, or to your business, knowing those numbers is really important and helpful. And so that's why I felt it was so important to make sure it was in this book.

Shark 23:14
No, I thought that was very well done. And I wish more people would understand those concepts, especially before they get into the entrepreneurial life because it would help them under a lot to understand the difference between price versus cost. So Nikki is everyone who's been a guest on the show. What is your favorite kind of shark and why? You're not too far from the coast?

Nikki Nash 23:34
I am not and I just was in Florida for the last two weeks. And this is going to be minus the hammer shark

Shark 23:41
Hammerhead. Yeah,

Nikki Nash 23:42
and a hammerhead shark. Yeah. And it's purely like, I think aesthetically, they just look like no, like growing up, you know, you have a very specific idea of what a shark looks like. And then I saw a hammerhead shark and like, oh, they're cool looking. And so they became my favorite.

Shark 23:57
Where did you see the Hammerhead? You saw it in person? Like, no, I didn't like the Discovery Channel. Oh, yeah, the

Nikki Nash 24:04
first time. But yeah, I was just like, this is fascinating. But now I want to actually like maybe, if you tell me it's safe. I want to meet one. Well, Mickey, it's

Shark 24:15
a special time in the show. Are you ready for the five most interesting and important questions that you're going to be asked today? I am so ready for this. All right, number one, sort of an English journalism school question. We're going to talk a little bit Mad Science pick your favorite subject, chemistry or physics. Physics. Okay. Number two, it's a dating question. Since we were talking about comparing this to dating, match or tender. I'm gonna have to go match. I wouldn't know. Horrible. You didn't reference either that I can remember in the book.

Shark 24:50
I did it.

Shark 24:51
I like the fact that you were talking about just actual dating as opposed to everything being digital and online and swiping left or right. So yeah,

Nikki Nash 24:58
I'd be like it My real preference would be in person but since it was an A or B, I was like what I know of I'm not on either. But what I know about both of them I think that should be more my jam.

Shark 25:09
Yeah. All right, number three, naughty by nature songs. Oh, pp or hip hop array.

Nikki Nash 25:16
Ah, now I have hip hop array in my head. I'm gonna have to I'm gonna have to go with that. Yeah,

Shark 25:20
I mean, I forgot about that until I thought about this for this. And then I couldn't get it out of my head for like an hour. All right, number four, working on the brand side or working on the agency side, because you've done a lot of both. I saw where you'd work for publicists as well.

Nikki Nash 25:35
Yeah, I think brand side.

Shark 25:40
Really? Yeah. You learn a little bit more about lifetime value as well. You have a little bit more of a life. Yeah, that's true. You're you have a more of a employment lifetime value. Number five, and the most important question that you're going to be asked today is biscuits or cornbread. I'm a biscuit girl. Nikki, where can people find out more about you? Get a copy of the book, find out what you're doing from thought provoking standpoint on speaking, advising, consulting, coaching and more. Yes,

Nikki Nash 26:10
and all the things? Well, the book is available where most books are sold. So you can go to Amazon target Barnes and Noble. That I was about to say Bed Bath and Beyond. But I was trying to say books a million. Who knows if you find one at Bed Bath and Beyond send me

Shark 26:30
your shopping for books at Bed Bath and Beyond? Something's wrong.

Nikki Nash 26:35
Maybe I'll just go to my local Bed Bath and Beyond and like stick some copies there. But yeah, but you can find me at Nikki Nash Co. and on Instagram. I'm at Nikki Nash official. So I love conversing with people. So send me a DM I leave a lot of voice memos back to folks. I find it fun.

Shark 26:55
Nikki, thank you so much for being with us today on a shark's perspective.

Nikki Nash 26:59
Oh my goodness. Thank you so much, Kenneth.

Shark 27:06
So there was my conversation with Nikki Nash, the author of "Market Your Genius, How to generate new leads, get dream customers and create a loyal community. Let's take a look at three key takeaways from my conversation with her.

Shark 27:17
First, if you're comfortable with a coach, then great, listen to their advice. But if your gut is telling you something, and she said, tested and tested like a mad scientist, there's so much crap out there, with people regurgitating what they've heard others articulate Well, you can and should listen, learn and avoid mistakes. But don't let that totally take place from testing some things, tactics, ideas, etc, that you should test for you. Don't group thing, be a mad scientist, not a sheep, test, validate and tweak your results.

Shark 27:49
Second, love the idea that your experience, not just your career can possibly help you build a business, but consider profitability, Will someone pay for what you have to offer.

Shark 27:59
Third, if you don't know your customer acquisition costs, then you're likely losing money. Look at Legion and apply the math that performance marketers focus on and use every day. Don't just look at cost per lead. Look at cost per acquisition and look at the lifetime value of that customer. Look at the math on A/B testing ideas and look at what the data really tells you to do. Listen to your gut, but follow the data as best as you can.

Shark 28:24
Got a question send me an email to Kenneth at a shark's perspective dot com. Thank you again for the privilege of your time. I am so thankful to everyone who listens. Thank you to the amazing sponsors Invoca and Drips!

Shark 28:35
Would you please consider writing a review and letting me know your thoughts on the show? I love to read each and every one of them. And it sure does help me create better content for both of us.

Shark 28:45
It's time for you to go out there and market your genius. So please join us on the next episode of A Shark's Perspective.
[music]