****Please forgive any and all transcription errors as this was transcribed by Otter.ai.****

[intro music]

Marcelo Parravicini 0:00

Hi, I am Marcelo Parravicini and you are listening to A Shark’s Perspective.

(Music - shark theme)

Kenneth Kinney 0:21

Welcome back and thank you for joining A Shark’s Perspective.

Kenneth Kinney 0:24

I am Kenneth Kinney, but friends call me Shark. I'm a keynote speaker, strategist, a shark diver host to this show, and your Chief Shark Officer.

Kenneth Kinney 0:32

Performance marketers today navigate through a complex landscape that's often not an easy ship to steer, especially when you try to bring the brand agencies affiliates and others all together all while performing at a high level driving results and being compliant to make regulatory bodies happy. So how do you do that, especially while working with a sea of partners to help you bridge the gap in order to do the right thing for you and for the customer? How should you bridge that compliance gap in performance marketing?

Kenneth Kinney 1:00

Marcelo Parravicini is a marketing and Enrollment Management thought leader in higher education, the President and CEO of Cygnus Education, the president of the Consumer Consent Council, and the CO Chairman of the Board of PACE (the Professional Association of Consumer Engagement).

Kenneth Kinney 1:16

And on this episode, we'll discuss performance marketing the regulatory landscape, bridging the gap for brands agencies and affiliates being an SE OG SROs for driving the adoption of best practices, call centers in the liability and telemarketing sales roles, buying 1000s of leads while narrowing the list of your trusted lead suppliers, DE&I and performance marketing, PACE, Consumer Consent, vinos from around the world, brotherly love selfies, the oldest street in the country, best Argentinian soccer player of all time, chairman of the board songs, and a lot, lot more.

Kenneth Kinney 1:48

So let's tune in to Marcelo el presidente del consejo y yo, senior Tiburon on this episode of A Shark’s Perspective.

[intro music]

Kenneth Kinney 2:02

Marcelo, Bienvenidos to la perspectiva they own Tiburon. I've been lucky enough to know good years. That's good. But welcome to A Shark’s Perspective. And please tell us a little bit about your background and your career today.

Marcelo Parravicini 2:14

Well, you know, Kenneth, I have a spent, you know, at this point about 25 years in performance marketing in business school. I started in pharmaceutical marketing of all things doing like SEO, I don't think we even called it SEO back in like 9097. It was just Oh, yeah, right. We're like Trish just trying to figure out how to leverage a website how to register a website on the Yahoo directory and other directories back then it was kind of weird. But in any case, somehow accidentally, somebody came to me with Hey, you understand this digital marketing, then in a buddy of mine runs Executive MBA program at Villanova. He's trying to figure out how he could use a website to get more applicants, can you help them out? And the rest of history, right, so within a few years, I found myself as a full time performance marketer on the agency side helping higher education institutions, which led directly to my first university role. Where over time, I became the chief marketing officer, and well, again, 25 years later, that has become the backbone of my career.

Kenneth Kinney 3:22

You were an SE-OG.

Marcelo Parravicini 3:22

Yeah, no, it's funny. I was I was doing it. I couldn't tell you what...

Kenneth Kinney 3:34

Was this in Argentina, or was this....

Marcelo Parravicini 3:35

Oh, this was here. It was here. I worked for the software solutions company first, that led to pharmaceutical, it was weird. The first job frankly, I was still in college and the first job that exposed me to digital marketing, because somebody wanted me to help them translate a software product, so that they could penetrate the Latin American market. So somebody asked me, are you 100%? bilingual? So like, yeah, so I was tested, and I pass the test. So I had I am translating software code, not the language within it. Yeah. Well,

Kenneth Kinney 4:10

that I remember the first time I met you, I think was in Paramus of all places proud, right, Jersey. And then a couple years later, we were partying on Beale Street. But you know, I know that you as the CO chairman of the board for pays for the professional association for consumer engagement and also through consumer consent, and also sickness, education, but tell people a little bit about what pace is that body and consumer consent as well?

Marcelo Parravicini 4:33

Well, both right, so consumer consent counsel, professional association of consumer consent or consumer engagement, excuse me. You know, these are associations that look to drive the adoption of best practice consumer centric practice, in the difference of two regulatory mandate, if you will, across performance, marketing and telemarketing verticals, or any vertical that relies on performance marketing and Intel in marketing operations or technology, so that would be at a very high level what we do. What's incredibly important to us at this point is to figure out how to work closely with regulators, in part of what we're working on is bringing to market a, you know, forming a self regulating organization that will telegraph to regulators that we are committed to adopting Best Practices driving the adoption of best practices. And working with them in ways to identify ways to have both the verticals that rely on the technologies and the technology providers and the service providers work together in finding solutions that are going to allow us to provide a consumer centric solution or or services across the board.

Kenneth Kinney 5:52

I've been in performance marketing about the same amount of time as you have course I think you've aged better. But think about where we are today, sort of give us your viewpoint on what the shape of the regulatory landscape is today?

Marcelo Parravicini 6:04

Well, you know, it's interesting, because depending on who you talk to, you get a slightly different variation of what may be happening, right. But I can tell you had a recent conversation with a couple of attorneys that work on the regulatory side of the equation, we don't need to get into, you know, I talked to unfortunately, my life, I've talked to a lot of attorneys, or for good reason. Okay. But, but the point here is that I was having a discussion about the Telemarketing Sales rules. And I don't remember which section don't quote me in the exact section, but I can tell you that one of the rules have to do with liability to anybody that allows a telemarketing operation to behave in a given way, knowingly, and I'm simplifying it somehow. But I tried to give you a good example that will drive it home. Basically, what it means is this, if you, for example, help a telemarketer operation that's working on your behalf, right, craft, or draft a script. And the script may be compliant, but you know, that the telemarketing operator may be pushing the envelope. According to the DC TSR rules, you are liable as well. Regulators are looking at CSR as a point of reference, you know, depending on who you want to believe, right, these regulators are looking at CSR and like regulations as a point of reference, when it comes to assigning liability. So it means what was coming down the pipe and keep in mind, you know, Cygnus education, that's my company, what we do is 100%, higher education market and Enrollment Management, technology solutions in a big concern to our clients is one or two, anyone in higher education, as you say, not our clients concern what what higher education institutions should be mindful of, is that, for example, if you're engaging with affiliate marketers, which is not a typical, you know, institutions, a lot of institutions, especially those that offer distance education programs, or online education, they engage with a vast number of vendors and tries to help them identify qualified prospective leads, you know, 99% of the vendors do a phenomenal job at deploying marketing tactics that are highly consumer centric in are not going to place the integrity of institutional brands at risk. However, every now and then you may have an affiliate that goes rogue and they publish a non compliant ad, why do they do that? Because it goes to market is lower right? They they cause it click costs is going to be lower, the cost per lead is going to be lower to the marketing vendor, therefore, their margins on the Minister is going to be much higher in and they can generate more more traffic that way. Well, if you start with DSR and the fact that regulators may be looking at these type of regulations as a point of reference, it means what that means that an institution may be held liable in the future for what that affiliate is doing, even though the institution may have a contract somewhere in between that affiliate and the institution that says you're not allowed to do this. Why? Because the position that regulators have taken is that okay, you have a contract that tells your affiliate makes it they cannot do this. But you really do know that this is happening in that assumption, the assumption that there is knowledge, the assumption there is that that the client site at times looks away, which I do not agree with. I think gliders go out of their way to catch these people and throw them out of their mixes. They're not looking away. They cannot always catch them. This is a whole different narrative. If you think about it, but regulators tend to think about it from the perspective of you're allowing this to happen. So therefore, we're going to hold you liable. And then when he got to pay that occasion, you have to consider the FTC, you have to consider the Department of Education. And the whole thing, really, it's snowballs very rapidly. And then you also have to get into consent. And this is when it gets interesting. There is rumor, you know, I can again, point you to a specific white paper or or article, maybe you've seen one or not,

Marcelo Parravicini 10:33

in what regulators have been talking about recently, also have to do with consent, think about any vertical that utilizes digital marketing leading to a form where you fill up the form, you click work, you click a TCPA consent checkbox, I agree to be contacted via phone, text, whatever else by these particular enterprise, or its affiliates, or whomever bottom line is you get express written consent from the consumer. You can also work with vendors that will help you capture the moment where that consent was given, you know, the vendors, active prospects, your Nya, there may be other solutions. When all is said and done, what regulators have now the question is that if in fact, there was some sort of non compliant messaging strategy execution, somewhere throughout the consumer journey, it nullifies that consent, and therefore you never receive concern, or it should, I should say, nullify that consent, and therefore you never receive consent, which now makes you liable to TCPA violations. Now, do I agree with the blanket statements? No, no, no, no, we should perform in the reason why is because he makes an assumption that universities or regardless of the vertical, the end user, they the organization that acquires the lead, right, is looking away fully knowing what's happening. I think that universities, clients in general, across me, I don't care if it's an insurance company or a mortgage company or a coalition University, I think they do understand what's happening, but they can not always catch it. Absolutely, yes.

Kenneth Kinney 12:15

It also makes the assumption that any marketer at any company in any vertical around the world actually knows how to connect all the dots. Well, none of them do. And that's something that from a customer experience standpoint, it's important from a lead generation standpoint, it's important from whatever form, it's important, and everybody gets so siloed in their thinking, but the government is thinking about the impact, are they overbearing, it's still to your point, it's a necessary thing we have to think about, and thank goodness, there's, you know, the education that consumer consent and, you know, organizations associations, like pays help educate on but having worked on the brand side, as well as the agency side affiliate side, the consulting side is you have as well have often seen how strongly the brands know the regulatory side of their business, because they've got attorneys on their side that engaged with other attorneys, but not enough know about the marketing and lead gen and practices. And then you see just the opposite, where a lot of the agencies and consultants know the marketing practices, but not nearly about the regulations that affect that industry, the compliance and direct impact on the consumer. So in your opinion, how do we go about? Well, thank you, because the first question was going to be Would you agree with that assessment, but to how do we go about better closing that gap with, especially with education and where they can find that knowledge, because at the end of the day, we should all be working towards better things for the consumer.

Marcelo Parravicini 13:36

You know, I have never is interested in bridging the gap. And I think to some degree, what we're trying to do with an SRO, and gaining a seat at the table, if you will, but that's you know, in terms of performance marketing, it's like more of a cross political effort, if you will. That's what we're trying to accomplish, right? You get an opportunity to have a conversation with regulators where we can learn from one another and help drive a common understanding of what's feasible or not. And how do we go after bad practices

Kenneth Kinney 14:05

and a conversation that's not sitting at a table facing a lot of congressmen?

Marcelo Parravicini 14:09

Well, if at all possible, look, don't get me wrong, I if you catch if you actually catch an enterprise, or an agency that is knowingly, think about it, think about it. If you look at the members of consumer consent Council, or performance marketing agencies in other type of enterprises, or the members of the previous Association, consumer engagement, noticing a one of the people sitting around the table wants to get another spam call. From people trying to explain your car insurance. Exactly. A lot of us we don't want our our mothers being called our grandmothers being called our spouses being called our children being cold. I sent I'm blacking three to four phone numbers every single day. Okay, in right. So if you say to me What happens if the FTC or any regulatory body catches somebody's doing this, clubbed them across the head? No pun intended. But listen, I am totally okay with if you catch an agency, a any sort of enterprise purposely engaging in any sort of practice that are abused as consumers will do something about it. However, you don't go and throw the baby out with the bathwater, and assume that the entire vertical is engaging in this. And therefore we have to pass rules where, for example, an affiliate, that's often and now you want to hold the brand liable, legally liable over something that the brand could not control, help us find, let's work together at finding mechanisms. To catch that I feel it and remove that affiliate out of the equation. Okay, I want to empower consumers to go after anyone that has deployed any sort of non compliant messaging strategy. But ultimately, the notion that the client side, if you will, is purposely deceiving. Consumers across the board are engaging in these type of expanding practices, as well, I think it's short sighted. And there's an opportunity to, you know, bridge that gap. By working in collaboration, there is more collaboration needed. Now, if you think about higher education, I can tell you that, you know, a lot of traditional institutions don't worry about it, because they think this is a problem on the proprietary equation. Well, maybe for now, but the Department of Education has already indicated that regardless of perform profit status, they want to be in the process of going after universities that are engaging in and so forth, deceptive marketing practices. Okay, so who's defining that, and I will work in collaboration to figure out how to clean up this place. Because the truth of the matter is, and I don't care if I work for universities, directly or indirectly, as a vendor, or as a consultant, I have never found myself in a conference room. Not at any university, not any agency, or people to sit around the table goes, Hey, what sort of noncompliant abusive tactics can we deploy today? No, that is the absolute opposite. The Oh completely is the absolute opposite conversation now that something may have happened somewhere on the line, and we want to make no mistake about it, we want to catch it and pursue that out of the equation 100%

Kenneth Kinney 17:35

That's such a great example, you know, you're more likely to have an attorney review your ad copy, then another marketing person. A lot of times, you know, when you think about all the different leads, suppliers, and call centers and vendors and everybody else that people work with to drive growth, you know, how do we need to approach really managing them? Do we need to micromanage these leads suppliers and call centers and everything else because they are supposed to be an air quote, extension of your team, they'd like to drive a little bit of distance. Sometimes if it comes to legal ramifications, if you will

Marcelo Parravicini 18:09

go right. I can tell ya, it's complicated, right? Because even if I can tell you forget about my own agency, right, I spent the bulk of my career working as a chief marketing officer in higher education, or even before then, I was a tactical marketing manager in higher education. So I bought a lot of leads, qualified prospective leads, and I figured out, you know, tactics to engage with these leads and convert those leads into applicants, and they enrolled and they graduated, okay. And the universities that work with actually did a really good job of helping these people achieve their personal, professional and academic objectives. But every now and then, at the front end of the equation, I did run into instances where there was a disconnect where you, you get a prospective student on the phone, and the prospective student has certain expectations that do not align with the offerings of the university. Why because some sort of messaging strategy was utilized on the affiliate side of the equation. To get a cheaper click, let's simplify it right, in sometimes is, frankly, difficult to really point pinpoint exactly where that lead came from, or that first click took place. Because these are very complex ecosystem. But you should be able to some, to some degree, gain an understanding with your marketing vendors, your agencies, where Hey, in the event, something like this happens, we can work together at figuring out some sort of audit to identify the source and remove the sort of equation because even because the reality of the situation is you think about it differently. There was a point and it was a small operation, considering the scale for some of these universities, but there was a point at which I I bought up to 35,000 leads a month. That's a lot of leads. But at the same time I knew there was a, my counterpart at another much larger university was buying 700,000 leads a month, think about, right. So the the higher your need for the qualified prospective student lead funnel, the higher the probability that within a marketing mix, something's going to happen, that's going to be well beyond your control. And what you want to do is you can you can afford to have direct relationships with 200 300. A large number of affiliates, what you want to do is maybe narrow the scope of your relationship management portfolio, if you will. I don't know what if that makes sense when manage or lower the total number of agencies that you're gonna be work directly in place, more pressure on those agencies? Okay.

Kenneth Kinney 20:55

Yeah. And I think that last part is key, because I think half the time other than being cheaper leads, they want more of them. And then the the ones that they work with closely, aren't producing enough. And so they go to other cheaper, other sources. Yeah. Willing, you hope that they're as compliant as you need them to be? Because it's a whole other issue. If they're not

Marcelo Parravicini 21:16

know it for whatever it is one something that I want to highlight, because what I what I was talking about in terms of totals, it doesn't matter if it's verified, that was another, excuse me, 35,000 leads, or 700,000 leads a month. This isn't a proprietary side of the equation. So the equations, people don't realize that traditional universities do in fact, by that many No, absolutely. Right. In fact, traditional universities will buy hundreds of 1000s of names, even from lease brokers to these they, such as the College Board, for example, you know, in what they do is they may engage with all this differently, but I assure you, when it comes to the total number of consumer records they acquire in one way, shape or form is compatible in the ad expose to the six do the exact same practices that everyone else is exposed. The only difference is that regulators are placing more emphasis on the proprietary equation. And I think there is time for regulators to take a look at every vertical from every perspective. And granted insurance, you don't have such a famous nonprofit or for profit insurance, or we go to higher education vertical, I think it's important for regulators, I don't care if he's the FTC, or the Department of Education or any other type of regulatory body, they need to start looking at the entire sector the same way because the practices that negatively impact proprietary schools that are doing or trying really hard to do the right thing are also impacting the traditional side of that, of that spectrum.

Kenneth Kinney 22:46

So I want to pivot over to something that I know pace and consumer consent is taking a real active role in and that's diversity, equity and inclusion. How do you think the industry is doing from a diversity standpoint, specifically from either helping hire people from diverse backgrounds or from helping build in educate the future performance marketers of the world, I know, for example, for pace, they welcomed in women and martech, under the umbrella of pace, which was really important, we've got mutual friends in there, and they've done an amazing job getting more women into the space, but it's a big industry and like a lot of other industries, it needs some change.

Marcelo Parravicini 23:23

You know, I think they're doing a really good job, I think what remains to be done, like in many other areas of our, you know, various the various communities we engage with, in I oftentimes fall, you know, I always find fascinating how incredibly, for example, diverse technology can be, if you, for example, walk in a room with follow programmers, or developers, you will find a slice of the entire population of the world. Right? These are incredibly smart, capable, brilliant people that really drive the development of technology solutions that all of us leverage for our lives of professional personal lives, and so forth. So I find that sometimes intriguing and perhaps somewhat concerning that other vertical cannot find the same amount of talent across every single, you know, worry segment of our population, if you will, to do other types of work. And I therefore challenge you know, leaders and stakeholders of organizations to question why and I'm not saying to you that a every time you're gonna run into a bias or, or prejudice or stuff like that, but I think what happens oftentimes, and I think it's a human condition, you know, we we tend to identify best with people that I that are like ourselves because we see ourselves in them in an enduring so we actually cheat ourselves at Add to the possibility of the eruptive innovation, creative thinking, why because you want to bring people into your organization that have different perspectives that may not see face exactly the way you see them is not that you disagree with them. And you may think there is a disagreement and disconnect. But ultimately, you have to consider the possibility that he says slightly different perspective and the more diverse your workforce is, the most likely is that your enterprise is going to be more innovators disruptive, progressive, and therefore grow faster in. And I gotta tell you, there is plenty of evidence studies, you actually look at case studies after case studies about what happens when leadership is able to build a robust, diverse group of professionals, for any type of effort in you'll find a division that's grown faster, and enterprise has grown faster. And why because he's more disruptive and innovative than the competitors. And that that, to me is absolutely critical. People need to start thinking about that.

Kenneth Kinney 26:02

And especially, you know, even when you think of diversity of thought, That's right. Like how that translates to innovation makes the argument a lot easier regardless of what somebody's skin color or gender or anything else is it makes it a lot more palpable to people to consider well Marcelo is this of all my guests and you come from the cold waters of Argentina.

Marcelo Parravicini 26:23

Oh, no, no that cold not that cold. You know, you know when you go depending on where you're at, right? Because none of that Argentina is closer to

Kenneth Kinney 26:30

That's true. That's true. It is it is a tall country. But what is your favorite kind of shark and why?

Marcelo Parravicini 26:36

Shark wall is the tiger shark? You know exactly what you stand with it.

Kenneth Kinney 26:43

Good. Very good shark.

Marcelo Parravicini 26:45

Tiger Shark is no question like even a white shark may not even bothered by the tiger chart. Most people don't realize that that happens to be the most dangerous shark. You know, some people may disagree with me. And why because the tiger shark doesn't know if your prey or not, so the shark will take a bite to find out. Generally speaking the behavior of the Tiger Shark

Kenneth Kinney 27:04

I love Tiger Sharks have a very healthy respect for him. I love Tiger Sharks because I swim out out of a cage. I think I've probably shown you some pictures. But Tiger sharks are the largest predatory shark that you can interact with. You can easily redirect them. They either come straight at you or straight from behind you and you can kind of deal with them. Great Whites sometimes are very difficult because the water is murky. It's 12 degrees and they're coming up as opposed to straight edge.

Marcelo Parravicini 27:32

Yeah, but you you don't have that experience because I remember watching the documentary wouldn't tell you to Sharky photographer check is one that if your prey or not, they will take a bite test you out. So you know, well.

Kenneth Kinney 27:46

But I swim with Tiger sharks down Jupiter West Palm Beach all the time. So and occasionally in the Bahamas. Right. Well, Marcelo, it's a special time the show? Are you ready for the five most interesting and important questions that you're going to be asked today?

Marcelo Parravicini 28:01

Yes, of course. 100%. All right.

Kenneth Kinney 28:04

So you're originally from Argentina, but you also have some Italian roots. Argentina has the second largest population of Italians outside of Italy, which is actual right? So are you going to drink a bottle of Argentinian wine? Or Italian wine in Argentina has some pretty decent wines,

Marcelo Parravicini 28:22

Argentinian wine? And you know, it's funny. I've never developed an appreciation for Italian why? I never have but it but it's interesting. Because yeah, because of my last name. And because of the fact that our dinner has a very large Italian population. People always think people first will say to me, are you Italian? And then I clarify. And then people will say to me, oh, yeah, Christina has a lot of Italians. But as it turns out, I have more French in me than Italian. So I think my French side is an add on with the the authentic Italian wine.

Kenneth Kinney 28:54

Yeah. Tell them about journal and see what they say. So that's right. That's right. Number two. You live in the city of brotherly love. Friends are coming to Philly and they want that Instagram moment. Of course, they'll take a picture at both locations. But if you had limited time, do you take them to get a picture a selfie in front of the Liberty Bell? Or the rocky statue?

Marcelo Parravicini 29:19

Oh, that's a tough one. Because it depends on who that person is probably the Philadelphia happens to have, you know, what's considered the oldest, the oldest street in the country. And it's called Alpha alley. So I always want on my way to take people to that street because it's like walking back into the 1600s Philadelphia. Now in terms of in terms of the bill, they the Liberty Bell and Rocky, I have a bias for Rocky, because I want you to consider that I first became aware of a city called Philadelphia, a city that eventually became my home and has been my home for 34 years. As a little kid in one of those areas, I'm watching that movie.

Kenneth Kinney 30:03

So that's fantastic. Yeah. Good answer to number three. Again, because I'm also a fan of the sport. Diego Madonna, or Lionel Messi.

Marcelo Parravicini 30:15

Maradona, and our people will challenge I have a partner. Okay, Drew good guy. Okay. But huge football, not soccer football fan. And he was born in London. He's British by birth. Grew up here. But of course, that means he's a fan of the English theme and it follows this person, you know, they then in any case, he has a throne opinion. So what Messi mean, and as far as he's concerned, this is the best player that ever existed. So if I find myself in a conversation with him, he goes, but look at the stats. Here's Messi stats, and he's Maradona stats. And I don't know, I don't think people quite understand the significance outside of the country. Maybe it has changed a lot. They have lived here for 34 years. And there's a fast growing segment of the US population that really embraces the World Cup and socket, and so forth. But generally speaking, I don't think Americans have as a whole don't internalize what it means to other countries when that trophy and Maradona did. And that's the end of it. Yeah,

Kenneth Kinney 31:21

well, and everybody always thinks the newer one is better than the older one. But Michael Jordan was better than LeBron, and so on. And so

Marcelo Parravicini 31:29

he's not even that because I won't give you 100% recognition on on his talent. I think the two men were equally talented, perhaps in different ways. But equally, they they brought the same amount of influence to the pitch. Although I will say the marathoner there's something about his personality. We took the pitch, he didn't care what was on that page, what company was in that field belong to Him. And that's something that you cannot take away from the guy. All right,

Kenneth Kinney 31:57

so for pace, you are the CO chairman of the board. But let's talk about the original chairman of the board Frank Sinatra. Songs, would you enjoy more? My Way are New York, New York, my way agreed, because New York, New York needs to be rewritten now, with new lyrics to talk about the rampant crime avoid

Marcelo Parravicini 32:20

New York, they something about New York, New York is epitome of success, if you will, historically speaking, right? The idea that if you go there, you can make it there, you can make it everywhere. It's very, there's some these these a fundamental truth to that statement, but that that can also be applied to many other cities. If you make it in London, you can make it everywhere, right? And like big, big metropolitan cities that are of global importance to do to the global community, right. But when he comes to my way, I don't think there's some women or men or women, or even a child wants that they really understand what the lyrics means that don't want to live a life where you can at the end, say something like that. You're great,

Kenneth Kinney 33:05

right? All right, number five, and the most important question that you're going to be asked today is biscuits or cornbread?

Marcelo Parravicini 33:15

Cornbread, man, but it depends on who's making it

Kenneth Kinney 33:17

smart. Biscuits and cornbread.

Marcelo Parravicini 33:22

Yeah, they're variations of cornbread. Right? If you find yourself in the south in a barbecue, they it's gonna be good. Yeah.

Kenneth Kinney 33:29

And we had some barbecue. Was that we had some barbecue.

Marcelo Parravicini 33:33

That's right. Well did.

Kenneth Kinney 33:35

You gotta you gotta pick one or the other.

Marcelo Parravicini 33:37

Definitely cornbread.. Okay. Yeah.

Kenneth Kinney 33:41

All right. So Marcelo, where can people find out more about you learn about pace and consumer consent and sickness and all the all the things that are keeping you busy?

Marcelo Parravicini 33:50

Yeah. So a phase out again. So it's pace association that or not, consumer consents, councils domain is consumer consent that org. And then my basis is sickness, education that come? You'll find me there. And of course, I'm on LinkedIn, send me a message, I actually do respond to probably 90 to 99% of the messages I receive.

Kenneth Kinney 34:15

Yeah. Marcelo Muchas gracias for being with us today on A Shark’s Perspective.

Marcelo Parravicini 34:21

Thank you so much. It was an absolute pleasure.

[music]

Kenneth Kinney 34:27

So there was my conversation with Marcelo Parravicini, a marketing and Enrollment Management thought leader in higher education, the President and CEO of Cygnus Education, the president of the Consumer Consent Council, and the CO Chairman of the Board of PACE (the Professional Association of Consumer Engagement).

Kenneth Kinney 34:45

First, most performance marketers aren't often thinking of connecting all the dots from ads to experience and beyond, but they should. It's imperative from a compliance standpoint very much so as well. From an experience standpoint, the more you can draw that line from point to point in their journey mapped across your brand's ads, etc, than the better you'll perform, invest as much as you can into this education. Because look, Google, to me is easy. martech tools are easy. Managing campaign spin is easy. connecting all of this to perform better, as well as be compliant is both necessary and crucial and not always easy. It's still crucially lacking today for a lot of marketers take the time to lean on associations like pace and consumer consent counsel to help bridge that gap, be smarter and perform better.

Kenneth Kinney 35:30

Second, love Marcelo's comments about groups of lead suppliers not working in some backroom scheming up evil ways produce bad leads that aren't compliant. However, what I've often seen across industries is that the brand knows its specific regulations well, but not the performance side of the house. And agencies often know better the media mix, performance, marketing, and so on, but not the regulatory compliance affiliates while they're caught somewhere in the middle. This is across any and all industry verticals, to higher ed is just one example. Financial Services has its own regulations, health care, also many do. But it's up to you on whichever side of the fence you are on here to help bridge the gap for the others so that it doesn't impact your customer and a non compliant way. And so that it only impacts them in a way that's beneficial to the experience and their satisfaction. The consumer doesn't care and shouldn't whichever way they came to you through whichever channel or which affiliate, no party should ever politely shut their eyes and not know what the other is doing. And the brand should lead on only those ethically compliant partners to produce more, a lot more.

Kenneth Kinney 36:30

Third, especially when you think about DE&I it helps to be more disruptive and more innovative. Marcelo said, we cheat ourselves to the possibility of disruptive innovation, especially with creative thinking when we aren't diverse in our thoughts. And if you learned anything on the show, you'd know that you've got to look at things with a slightly different perspective.

Kenneth Kinney 36:48

Got a question? Send me an email to Kenneth at a shark's perspective.com.

Kenneth Kinney 36:52

Thank you again for the privilege of your time and I'm so thankful to everybody listens.

Kenneth Kinney 36:56

Please consider writing a review let me know your thoughts of the show.

Kenneth Kinney 36:59

Gracias amigos. Espero que vuelvas aquí de nuevo pronto. Hasta luego y join us for the next episode of A Shark’s Perspective.

(Music - shark theme)