Transcription
****Please forgive any and all transcription errors as this was transcribed by Otter.ai.****

[intro music]

Shark 0:16
Welcome back and thank you for joining A Shark's Perspective. I am Kenneth "Shark" Kinney, your host and Chief Shark Officer.

Shark 0:22
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Shark 1:16
One of my favorite places to see sharks is in the Bahamas. I go fairly often, the water is crystal clear. And if you go by plane, it's only a half hour so from Miami. It's full of amazing locations from Gemini to Cat Island to Grand Bahama Island and more. It also has an abundance of sharks, but what does it really take to run a successful scuba business? One that's grown to 20 boats, and you know that boats do not come cheap and all of that aside, you've still got to run that business to be safe and persistently good and providing a great and amazing experience. Stuart Cove is the founder of Stuart coves die Bahamas, a large scuba snorkeling and scuba dive shop known around the world that offers an abundance of aquatic adventures. And on this episode we'll discuss running a scuba business the experience of swimming with sharks and the psychology of people like me who love it the British brain drain working on to James Bond movies and teaching Sean Connery to dive ocean in shark conservation, the Bahamian government regulations, lots of species of sharks working with Shark Week BBC natgeo, discovery, bohemian Baron rum, and a lot lot more. So let's tune into a Bahamian shark wrangler with a diver nicknamed Shark on this episode of A Shark's Perspective.

Shark 2:32
Alright, well, Stuart, thank you so much for joining us today on A Shark's Perspective. Well, literally and figuratively, I guess be diving into a lot here. But tell me a little bit about your background and your career story.

Stuart Cove 2:44
My background started I was born in northeast England and a place called Newcastle and my father being a young dentist, they just started the National Health Service. And he was part of the great brain drain of Great Britain in the late 50s, early 60s. And he and that's when England had 130 colonies around the world. So he picked the Bahamas and that's how I ended up the mama said the right age to I grew up in the Bahamas, went to school here until I was 10. And then I went got shipped to Canada for boarding school. The lucky lucky kids went to Canada and they you know, being part of the Commonwealth of course and the unlucky ones went back to the mother country back to England. I was part of the lucky lucky clan who went to Canada at but you know thinking back at the time, you know because the English have really screwed up vacations. They have a month at Christmas a month says Easter in six weeks in the summer boys the Canadian sir You know, three weeks a Christmas tree once a week said he spent three months in the summer. I could not imagine not having a three month summer vacation.

Shark 4:05
Well now you've got one all your all your life. So

Stuart Cove 4:09
You know my life has been. I've been blessed. And I've been blessed largely because of the sharks.

Shark 4:17
Exactly. So I understand that you also worked on to James Bond movies, some of that money helps you start your business. What was that experience like?

Stuart Cove 4:28
Well, my first big break was for your eyes only wear was a GoPro diver. And the director really liked me and I got a lot of extra stuff out of it. And at the end of that film, I was able to not only hone my film skills, but make enough money was able to buy a boat, little band and a bunch of dive gear from the film that used tanks fleet regulator And that gave me my start. You know, I got a zero Xerox machine, went and copied a bunch of pliers and got an answer machine and started a one man show.

Shark 5:12
And how many votes do you have now?

Stuart Cove 5:14
Oh, we have we were running in like 20 votes now. We were COVID. Right now what? What since we got started again, we're running it up five books.

Shark 5:26
England and Canada are not exactly, you know, the most well known shark hotspots on the planet, although they do have plenty on the coast. But what drew your interest to sharks? You know,

Stuart Cove 5:37
what drew my interest to sharks was, I can remember my first memory of sharks as going to go swimming on the beach, and my mother said, don't go into the water, the sharks will get you. And so you know, we are brought up that sharks were bad. And we were frightened of them. And nobody, the thought of going in the water with sharks was asinine. We used to keep fish tanks and record swimming off the reefs off the beach and catch fish for tanks. And I remember one time a shark came, you know, Reef Shark probably a long time ago, probably not even 10. And we saw it scared the bejesus out of us and screamed out of the water. And you know, I told everybody and we thought, you know, that was a close call. And that was just you know, strictly mental. Because we probably 100% Yeah, it was scared that little shark more than it scared us.

Shark 6:47
Yeah, well sadly, when people scream sharks, I'm the guy that runs into the water so I'm a little bit dyslexic in that matter, so it's it's always been a fascination of mine, but you run a fantastic shark diving tour and experience describe in your own words what a shark diving experience is to you both literally and I don't know sort of what is the bigger meaning of swimming with sharks? What does that mean to you as well?

Stuart Cove 7:12
Well, to me a dive without sharks is like a day without sunshine. Thank you from from the my first experience on for ice only Actually, we are working Tiger Sharks for that film. I ever since then, I never never been in the water and enjoyed it without sharks. I mean to me it died without sharing. I'm completely on board out of my mind. Absolutely. But I remember on for your eyes only I was bidding a long line because we're catching Tiger Sharks for the film and not killing them or catching them and using them live. And this huge Hammerhead swim as I was fading this long line and I came up to the surface and all these California guys, you know the film guys who are up on the top of the boat, and I said Hammerhead and it was a huge hammer at swim up to the line as I was stating it and they all jumped in the water with that they grabbed their mass and fence and jumped in and I thought Jesus there must be something here these people want to see these sharks. Yeah, yeah, you know and they might pass if someone said shark you know everybody got out of the water. Here we are these crazy Californians are jumping in the water. Yeah, light bulb went off in my head. I said, hey, there's something here. And then I didn't know what it was at the time. But you know that that resonated with me.

Shark 8:47
Absolutely. Describe the dyes if you will, that your team facilitates.

Stuart Cove 8:52
Well we dive all over the Bahamas with many different species of sharks will chase the sharks around during the different seasons and migrations. But on site here are our big dive. So with the Caribbean reef sharks, we have the random Pope where we have a rack and a wall with the sharks. And we have sharks we can it's great for filming because we can have sharks on the surface sharks midwater sharks on the wreck, or sharks on that wall all all on one, one location. We do for our guests we do to that the reef sharks our bread and butter. We love them. There's so many of I've been with them for this money. The reason we started diving at this particular place was clean Spearfish there and we get, you know, run out of the water after a while but reef sharks and at the time we thought they were both sharks and there's a back in the early 80s and you Before that we were diving with the Soucie sharks out in the tongue of the ocean, on the US Navy as a buoy anchored out there, and 6000 feet of water, and of course it's a blue water died. Lots of pelagic species, and you've got all the dolphin fish and the Marlin and so forth. Then, of course, you have a whole frickin bunch of silky sharks. And that's where we started our tourists shark diving because we would go out there in the Spearfish and try to shoot the dolphinfish It's a Hawaiians call mighty mighty, oh, yeah, the Bahamas, in Florida on this dolphin. And that was just a ball. But though the silky sharks would come, so you have to shoot it and get it out the water before the silky Scott. But we had such a ball and I was coming in one day said we should bring some of our dad guests here. And we did that. And we put a price tag on it. And it became really famous very quickly. We've got you know, BBC national history. All the big time television shows around the eastern seaboard came out.

Shark 11:23 Oh, yeah. Discovery. Nat Geo

Stuart Cove 11:25
All those guys. I really did. Shark Week for I think up until the last couple years we've been shark week every year. So like

Shark 11:37
for a lot of people I think of this is like a bucket list thing. I checked off that off my bucket list. When I was a kid and I go as often as I can now just simply for the love and pleasure of it. Exactly like you said a day without sharks on a diving trip is at least a boring dive to be what do you think goes into the DNA though of people who do this so often for those of us that love it, whether it's the sharks or the ocean or whatever it is, what do you think? What do you think's wrong with our psychology that makes us so attracted to these fish which again, Caribbean reef sharks for example don't have a history of hurting anyone but they are a pricks predators in your in their environment, they have to be respected. But what do you think is part of our DNA that makes us so so weird to enjoy this so much?

Stuart Cove 12:19
Well, diving with sharks, they are so magnificent, so beautiful, so perfect. Amen. And being in the water with it's just an honor. And I'm just so amazed every dive I do, even though it's hundreds and maybe 1000s of dives with the sharks. It's never adult. And and not that I'm scared of them. I respect them. But I'm in their their world. And nothing gives me more pleasure than introducing other people to this magnificent fish.

Shark 12:51
Amen to that.

Stuart Cove 12:52
And once you dive with sharks, you become a shark ambassador, you become a shark conservation. You got from wanting to catch and kill sharks, like a lot of people do, to wanting to protect them. And so you know, we have taken over a million people with the sharks well over the last 40 years, and I think every one of those people have gone away. As shark protectors, sharks, conservationists. It's remarkable how getting in the water and being at one with these animals can change your psyche and your thought about them. And we dive in many different species of sharks and we go to Bimini and in the fall and die with the hammerheads, we go to Cabo and spring died with the ocean and white tips and all you're looking for go to West End. And the tiger sharks probably in my mind, one of the past shark diving experiences, his Tiger beach and Upper West and Grand Bahama species sharks at once and 20 feet of water.

Shark 14:09
You know, what are the challenges of running a business like this? I mean, obviously, you're dependent on tourists, like any traveling hospitality type of business, but the pandemic has created some challenges. I know insurance must be a mess to deal with just running a normal scuba business is not easy on its own, but talk about the business challenges you incur as a business owner and how you've helped keep this business growing and flowing like it's done for so many decades.

Stuart Cove 14:35
Well, it's insurance. It's difficult. Just for diving, to run a dive operation. Exactly. It's no extra for diving with sharks. because there hasn't been that many claims against insurance companies for shark accident.

Shark 14:54
Great point.

Stuart Cove 14:55
So so we're very fortunate in that way. Yeah, Shark Bay. The insurance companies are more insure more concerned with us taking beginner divers out on a discover scuba dive to 20 feet on the reef. And they are they have taken that diver decimus the defender of sharks or with Tiger Sharks or with oceanics in the ocean, because that just that's the misconception, the accidents. We have a pretty much clean record when it comes to shark diving. I don't think we've ever had an accident with sharks. Now I've had a couple of fights with smart purse on my snorkel trips where people are storing food, fish food, and all the yellow pills coming in circle. People and then a little shark our little recharge run in there. And then two people have been like that. But that was mistaken identity. And not even on a shark excursion. That was

Shark 16:00
what it sounds like the habits of nurse sharks the way they bite

Stuart Cove 16:05
out again is the I think that's just an educated people swimming with these harmless looking sharks. Yeah, which nerve shark so of course, aren't harmless. And they got a hell of a suck. Yeah.

Shark 16:19
Well talk about you know, what are the things that I love about where you are in the Bahamas is how much the big avian government and the regulations that went into protecting the sharks, it's one of my favorite places because it does have an abundance of sharks. And a lot of that is now protected by regulation, which is prevented a lot of the overfishing that you find in so many other locations throughout the Caribbean, I think people always think that you're gonna see sharks everywhere you go, but you don't find them nearly as abundantly in the Virgin Islands or Cayman Islands or places like that. The Bahamas is one of these few locations where you have a lot of support behind the government, but how has that helped your business continue to grow?

Stuart Cove 16:58
While you know we're very fortunate and that the Bahamas has an incredible geography. We have over 100,000 square miles of shallow water. And lots of mangroves, lots of breeding areas for shark so we naturally have a whole lot of different types of sharks and a great abundance of them. And then our government. Luckily, the time back, I think it was back in 1993 that they ban shark fishing and 2011 they took it a step further and made the whole country a shark preserve and, and banned any kind of export or import of shark products whatsoever, including shark's teeth, shark pens, charts are completely protected in the Bahamas.

Shark 17:57
Fantastic.

Stuart Cove 17:59 And that is that is made our business stronger and stronger. Because I you know, we go all over the place and look for sharks and they're always there. And they're not having any more attacks or bites. Because of is a testament to our government and their their fortuitous agenda and protecting the sharks. They realize that, hey, the shark dies, the shark people are here to protect the sharks and the shark. If we do if we stop feeding the sharks, they're not going to start patrolling beaches and eating tourists. That just doesn't happen. We've done a lot of science, legitimate science that's been published in the university. And they say where the shark dives are happening. The reef is much healthier than and then other places in the area. Exactly made shark diving is good.

Shark 19:04
Well, and it's also brought in well over I have heard estimates, I've read many times that it's nearly $150 million dollars a year to the tourist economy to the Bahamas, which is just amazing that they found that respecting the ocean in nature and sharks that it's actually brought in more business than it would have simply from overfishing. So very rare that I'm ever going to commend any government anywhere but the Bahamian government has done a fantastic job. So let's talk a little bit more about the business. So for people like me, it's all about swimming with the sharks, but you've got a whole business to consider other than just hanging out in the water. How do you go about creating a great experience for the people that dive with your operation? Because they do have other choices and it always comes down to experience it to some point.

Stuart Cove 19:49
I think you have to have a consistent product. It has to be perceived as safe. It has to be safe, and you have to make it that you have to keep it that way. You can't be it cowboys and jets to make a couple bucks you got to you got to make sure that the divers are safe. And then when you're bidding that there's rules that are followed. And you have to police it properly. And you have to educate. Our big problem now is we have a couple of resorts have sprung up in this sold private houses and of course, these private houses and boats. And so you have a lot of young people coming out and jumping in the water with the sharks, but they really don't know what they're doing. They don't have, you know, one of my staff on there telling them, or suggesting to them what they should or should not do around the sharks. But so far, so good. We haven't had any problems.

Shark 20:53
Yeah, amen. And I've seen that firsthand on quite a few dives, outside of yours as well. So I get it, but I'm going to transition then and talk a little bit about shark Wait, what's that meant to your business? In general, it's polarizing to a lot of people. I spoke with quite a few marine biologists and conservationists. I know who loves it, and others who hate it. What's your take on it?

Stuart Cove 21:16
I you know, I loved Shark Week for the first 38 shows I worked on the first 38 years. But then they they got a new crew in there. And they're really big, and they don't listen. And and I kind of severed ties, or they've severed ties with me. Because I said I can't deal with you. We had a situation where I said we had two boats, and both boats at Fudan. I said, Listen, I'm gonna do the baiting. I'm the masturbator. And they say, okay, Stuart, associate got out there. And I have one of my safety divers in the water. Sorry, the people on the other boat from discovery, the discovery, the client, so whatever, started throwing food in the water. And of course, my diver got bitten. Luckily, he seemed a smart guy. He was sitting very badly, but he knocked off on my boat back to my boat. And we'd bandage them up, and they never even knew about it, because they would love that church, you know, sorry, I shouldn't swear they went. where someone gets bitten, because it's dramatic. A lot of blood core. But you know, that I was I was so angry as saying, What's wrong with you people? You know, we have rules here. And I think discovery is they've got a little bit big for their boots, they think they know more than they do. Right now, I'm a naysayer when it comes to discover our Shark Week.

Shark 23:02
So as far as sharks in the environment, and there's so much in the world taught me that we're talking about now with global warming, and with pollution in the water and everything else, but what do you find is some of the biggest challenges now the to the sustainability of our oceans, even in your area, you know, you've got something that always upsets me is when I find trash of any kind in the water. And I see it all the time. The oceans, obviously, the the corals are a lot more bleached than they used to be. And it's it is a concern, you know, when you put on your eco hat, what is your concerns right now to the sustainability of our oceans today?

Stuart Cove 23:40
Well, I'm a huge conservationists, not a preservationist. I like to go and catch your fish once in a while, for sure, sure, leave and the protection of the environment, particularly the marine environment. And it all starts with educating the children in the schools. And we have put together many years ago, a program called children on the reef. Where we go into the schools, we created a slideshow and we educate the kids about, about the importance of not throwing your trash in the water, about not indiscriminately killing fish, just taking what you need, and so forth. And then we take them out and snorkeling on the reef, and then eventually we take them snorkeling with the sharks. Because that's our main goal is a shark on bad. You get these kids in the water what the sharks are playing on their own. They're amazed. Absolutely. Up to you. It's our generation. That's the problem that the kids can get to them, get to their parents and educate their own parents.

Shark 24:55
So Stuart is to serve everybody that's been on my show. What is your favorite Kind of shark or shark story and why

Stuart Cove 25:02 my favorite sharks are the pelagic species, the soucis. And the oceanics. I really liked them because they get in the dusties. Of course, they get very large, and and

Shark 25:16
very curious.

Stuart Cove 25:18
They're very curious. And there, we discovered back in the early 80s, that if you grab one of those pelagic sharks and right on the tip of the tail and twist it, they go into panic. And we people say, Well, well, why would you do that? Why would you harass the fact that while we were removing fish, sharks, absolutely fishermen, and that was the reason for it. And then at 1.1 of my pet peeves, out there, off of the Cat Island with the oceanic says, you see a shark with 10 different tags on it. And I think these scientists really need to get a database and work together and use one shark per tag, you know, one tag for shark, because is this really necessary to put all these different sharks so it looks a tags and a shark? So it looks like a Christmas tree?

Shark 26:10
Exactly. I

Stuart Cove 26:10 mean, that's, I think it's just a moneymaker. And so at one point, I was actually going down and putting the oceanics and detonics. And taking out some of the tags. And I thought, well, that's probably not very good, but I don't think it does. Sharks a lot of good. And you can do all the study you need if you put one tag in the shark and everybody uses the same number, the same tags.

Shark 26:36
Alright, well, Stuart, it's a special time in the show. Are you ready for the five most interesting and important questions that you're going to be asked today?

Stuart Cove 26:44
I'm ready for the five most interesting questions are going to be asked in it. Yes.

Shark 26:48
All right. Number one, dating back to where you got started. Roger Moore or Sean Connery. Oh, Sean Connery, of course. Of course. Yeah. But she got started with Roger Moore. But Sean Connery was, yeah, there's no question.

Stuart Cove 27:04
I tell you, I'll tell you why. I I've worked with Sean Connery personally, and I taught him to die for never seen ever again. And he actually he was a neighbor of mine for many years and just recently passed away. But he he has James Bond in real life. He's just just a cool dude.

Shark 27:23
Yeah, no kidding. I never met them. I just worked second unit on his movies. It's still fantastic. Alright, number two Bahamian ROM or Bahamian beer. Oh well, I'm a big rum drinker. So I really liked your old the old Bahamian Bacardi nice. I like it a lot. Other collects pretty good. collects pretty good. Collect goals pretty good. The gold is fantastic. It is. Alright, number three oxygen or Nitrox.

Stuart Cove 28:07
Nitrox I think Nitrox is not very helpful. And keeping me from getting bent. Oxygen is we only use oxygen that you know at 20 feet per decompressing.

Shark 28:20
Alright, number four, eating fresh grouper or eating fresh comp.

Stuart Cove 28:26
But definitely for me fresh comp. I don't eat grouper because grouper My friends and I have a one of my little quirks I want you to group for a long pillar group.

Shark 28:38
rally Oh, I absolutely love grouper. But I am ultimately just completely fascinated that especially when I go on the east coast of Florida and I swim with sharks, these large Goliath groupers will be sitting next to silkies and tigers and all these massively large sharks. And the grouper just does its thing you know, walks away, but it still makes a hell of a sandwich. So

Stuart Cove 29:05
yeah. I don't get like it, trust me, but I just it's just a personal issue.

Shark 29:11
Well, and it's also the ugliest fish on the planet. So are one of them. Alright, number five. And the most important question that you're going to be asked today is biscuits, or cornbread

Stuart Cove 29:23
biscuits. I'm not a big cornbread guy. Just because it falls apart in this kind of heartbeat.

Shark 29:32
Good point. All right. So Stuart, if people want to go on an amazing shark diving experience, where can people find out more about you your shark diving operation and more?

Stuart Cove 29:43
Find more about the best shark diving in the world is Stuart cove.com.

Shark 29:48
Stuart again, it's been an honor. It's been an honor diving with your team. I cannot wait to get back in the water. It's been a few weeks for me and I'm ready to get back. Thank you so much for being with us today on A Shark's Perspective.

Stuart Cove 29:59
Thank you. Very much it's been an honor for me as well. And I appreciate it shark had some. Hopefully I get to be diving with you soon.

Shark 30:13
So that was my conversation with Stuart Cove, the founder of Stuart COEs dive Bahamas, a large scuba snorkeling and scuba dive shop known around the world that offers an abundance of aquatic adventures. Let's take a look at three key takeaways from my conversation with him.

Shark 30:27
First, a couple of quotes from Stuart, a dive without sharks is like a day without sunshine. Yeah, couldn't agree more with that. He also said diving with sharks. They're so magnificent, so beautiful, so perfect. And being with the water with him is just an honor. Yeah, Enough said no wouldn't change your word.

Shark 30:44
Second, Stuart later said and I quote, once you dive with sharks, you become a shark ambassador, a shark conservationist. And so for me, that's what happened several decades ago. It didn't even start with scuba, though. It was just a free diving encounter I had with one of them. When I was young, I stared the shark down and I found my spirit animal if you will. Now I do everything I can to promote the conservation of them wherever they are. I hope that you can help with that. But if not just a better understanding would go a long way.

Shark 31:11
Third, our oceans need help. Sharks need more protections. They in all fish depend on us to be good stewards of the environment. Having seen oceans and reefs and shark populations all over the world. You see a consistency in too much overfishing, assurance, the acidity of the waters, which you can recognize in the bleaching of the coral reefs and too much pollution. All of this needs to change.

Shark 31:32
Got a question? Send me an email to Kenneth at a shark's perspective dot com. Thank you again for the privilege of your time. I'm so thankful to everyone who listens. And thank you to the amazing sponsors and vogon drips. So would you do me a favor? If you liked this episode? Would you consider writing a review and help me preach my shark marketing, if you will. So let's get back in the water soon. And there's a pretty good chance that if you can join me in the Bahamas, I'll be there. So please join us on the next episode of A Shark's Perspective. [music]