Transcription
****Please forgive any and all transcription errors as this was transcribed by Otter.ai.****

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Shark 0:16
Welcome back and thank you for joining A Shark's Perspective. I am Kenneth "Shark" Kinney, your host and Chief Shark Officer.

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Thank you to Invoca and Drips. And now back to the show.

Shark 1:19
What is swagger to you? This is a phrase I'm learning a new appreciation for because of who I authentically AM. And now friends know me. There's a lot of history, this word dating back nearly 500 years to even the Urban Dictionary version of the term that we know today. But if you think of yourself in life or in the workplace, are you exhibiting swagger, not the cocky definition you often think of, but are you being the person or the persona of who you really are? Are you the unshakable, unstoppable and utterly irresistible force that will help you become what you want to be? Leslie M is a speaker, swagger coach and the author of The Wall Street Journal usa today and Amazon best selling book swagger unleash everything you are and become everything you want. And on this episode, we'll discuss what swagger really is authenticity, imposter syndrome, the Dunning Kruger effect person versus persona Sweet dreams into many Linux, A Midsummer Night's Dream, whether or not Canada is a swaggering nation, and a lot, lot more. So let's tune into a swagger author with a shark who exhibits a lot of swagger on this episode of a sharks perspective.

Shark 2:31
Leslie, thank you so much for joining us today on A Shark's Perspective. We'll dive into the book heavily here in a second. But tell us a little bit about your background and your career to date.

Leslie Ehm 2:39
Oh, okay. It's a very long and winding road. I've had a whole bunch of crazy careers. I actually started life as a singer. That was my first dream, which I did for many years, I moved to the UK to pursue my my singing dreams. But then I kind of accidentally gravitated into the film industry where I was a script analyst and a script editor and a script doctor, which then accidentally led to a career being a TV host. Because that's what happens in my life opportunities present themselves, and I go, obviously, hell yeah, sure, why not me. And then I moved back to Canada after 17 years of being in the UK, with really no saleable skills. So I looked at something that I tell people to do is don't look at your resume. Look at your transferable skills. What is it that you have learned and gained insight into? And, and and how do you tap into those natural skills that you have to sort of repackage them in a way that might be of use in a different role. So I did that and talk my way into an advertising agency because of this multimedia background I had in my foundation as a writer. And I ended up working in advertising, ultimately, being a creative director. But at some point, I came home and I said to my husband, I feel like I'm using my superpowers for evil instead of good. And I decided to quit my job and start a training company. And my husband's reaction was just priceless. He was like, what you say what you're gonna do what he did, Leslie, you hate training. And you're untrainable I said, right? Perfect. Who better to start a training company than someone like me, because if I can create experiences for someone like me, then I'll probably be onto something. And that changed my whole my whole life. I just switched everything to, to moving from looking for a platform, which I think I'd been doing for a lot of years, to realizing that the reason I wanted to have a platform is because I wanted to influence positive change in the world that was really important to me. And I could do that through this whole training enterprise helping people to be better at their jobs and feel better about themselves the very next day, which was the beginning, you know, the the very sort of, you know, the embryonic start of what swagger ultimately became.

Shark 4:52
So two questions follow up on that first, what kind of music did you sing?

Leslie Ehm 4:57 I loved that whole kind of electro Soul, you know your rev Max and Yazoo and that kind of because my voice is big and soulful. It's got like an r&b tinge to it. But back in the day because it's back in the day, I loved I loved all the British music, I Love New Wave. I loved punk and everything. And there was this beautiful crossover and a lot of that music and that's what I gravitated to. So that's sort of, you know, set my my path.

Shark 5:19
Yeah, I can listen to Annie Lennox everyday.

Leslie Ehm 5:21
All right, all day long or Alison Moyet. Like the best. Yeah.

Shark 5:26
So second question is, why didn't you stay in TV?

Leslie Ehm 5:29
I found it pretty shallow. Actually, yes, I found that it. It wasn't really, I didn't get to do the things that I want. At the very first TV show that I got, I got offered a show from pitching a concept to a production company. And they said, you know, you should be on camera. I was like, clearly You're a genius. Of course, I should be on camera. And they hired me and gave me a talk show. The problem was I wanted to be white, Oprah. They wanted me to be Jerry Springer. So it was really we compromised on kind of a Ricki Lake kind of jam. But it I did not like what they were asking me to do. My my producer for the show was the guy who created survivor. So you can imagine the mindset that was going on there. And I felt like I couldn't, I couldn't do the soulful work that I wanted to do. And I was I was being expected to exploit people, and so on and so forth. And I lost five episodes, and I quit, which was unprecedented. They were trying to sell me to the States. I was like, I don't want to do it. So I followed my integrity. And then I ended up hosting a show called the Fashion Police, which has a lot of fun. It was the precursor to the bad nasty one in the States, it was more like we traveled the country, we did surprise makeovers on people, people would write in about people who they felt deserved a makeover. So I could do those kind of interviews and would surprise them. That was a lot of fun. And I felt like it was more in keeping with the positive kind of jam that that I was all about. But ultimately, you know, at the lower levels of working on TV, which is what I was doing, you have no control. And so you're sort of told what to do. And and you have a little bit of control over your persona, because nobody could change me even if they tried. But ultimately, I felt like it just it wasn't deep enough for me. It wasn't meaningful for me. And it, you know, it took away all of that need to want to be famous and all that kind of crap. I just I got rid of that. I was like No, this isn't this isn't filling up my heart and soul. And it don't feel like I'm in my place of purpose or power.

Shark 7:29
Well, congratulations on the book swagger unleash everything you are and become everything you want. For Whom did you specifically write this book? Who is the target audience?

Leslie Ehm 7:38
Well, I spend, you know, with my company combustion, I'd spent, you know, when I started writing the book, it had been a decade traveling, literally traveling the globe, and working with all these fortune 100 companies and Google and and PepsiCo and TD Bank, and Lenovo and Uber and everything. And and I discovered this fundamental human truth, which was that regardless of the company, the culture, the country, or the level CEO down to new entrance, at their core, people did not feel like they could reveal who they really were, and still find the success that they were dreaming of. They didn't they didn't think that they were good enough, as they were authentically to get everything that they were dreaming of. And I recognize this to be fundamentally untrue. In fact, the opposite was true, the more that people could be themselves, and tap into all of that juicy, unique, one of a kind, idiosyncratic stuff that they were withholding, because I didn't think the world was going to love or accepted or appreciate it. That was the thing that was going to help them to stand out and get recognized and to be in their place of power. So I was like that, that is what I have to do with my work. So I focused everything that I was that I was doing, even though I was skills training, that became the subversive thing. Because if you you can train all the skills that you want. But if people don't believe that they're worthy of all of that greatness, and they don't believe that they can take those new skills on, on in an authentic way layer on them. On top of that, that powerful foundation of authenticity. They don't work doesn't mean anything. So I was like, I'm just I'm just laying skills on top of a shaky foundation. And I want to do better by these people.

Shark 9:20
So the dictionary definition is to walk in a proud or arrogant way. That's the general and but how do you define swagger?

Leslie Ehm 9:27
So when we hear swagger, we think of that, you know, show off the arrogant peacock in your face extroverted thing that some people like but most people go who I don't know about that. I've redefined it as the ability to manifest who you really are, and hold on to it in the face of all of that psychological crap that's going to come forward regardless of the situation or environment. So it means you've got one face, one truth, one heart, and you show up with it no matter where you are, no matter what's going on around you, no matter who you're with. You know that who you are.

Shark 10:00
is the only way to be. I'm going to read a passage on redefining swagger you wrote, I don't believe there's a prescribed way to behave at work if you want to succeed. Sure, there social Moore's and HR endorsed behaviors. But that's not what we're talking about here. I spent the past decade getting passed to help people elevate their game. And there's one universal truth that surfaces after time, the more you're able to be yourself in your work, the more successful you'll be at work. That's what swagger really is. It's not about fronting or faking, it's the courage to do the complete opposite in the face of scrutiny or judgment. With that in mind, how should we go about redefining that?

Leslie Ehm 10:35
Um, well, I think that that we tell ourselves the story that the only way we're going to be successful at work, is if we assimilate you know, if we, if we walk and talk and act like everybody else, because we see it being modeled everywhere, and we go, Well, if I do that, too, that's going to increase my chances of, you know, of ascending. But when you do that, what happens is that you assimilate to the point of invisibility, you no longer stand out, people don't really hear your voice, they don't hear what makes you different, and special. As a leader, it's really hard to gain followers when you've assimilated to that point, because they're not invested in you as a human being. Because they're not connected to you, you're just the shiny, glossy package, but they're looking for someone who they can connect with who they can trust, who they can stake their careers on, and you know, and follow. So, so the, the redefinition in the word context is that you got to move towards standing out, as opposed to trying to fit in and believing that story that only through, you know, changing who you are in taking off all of the things that you think are imperfect, or, or the rough edges are the flawed, or the human stuff about you that that has no place at work is just bullshit. It's just not it's just not truth. You know, so that that, to me is what's the most important thing? Well, how

Shark 12:00
does somebody exhibit that though, especially in a corporate life, because what I was thinking about was my own swagger, and how I tend to walk into a conference room or walk around the halls like I'm Conor McGregor, someone that exhibits it exhibits a lot of swagger, if you will, the technical definition of swagger anyway, then how do you do that, though, without offending people, because we're in a very PC World right now, that when we come out with more authenticity, it also can turn a lot of people off. So balancing that can be difficult, all the layers you pull away, and I'm not overly as you can probably tell, I'm not overly worried about being too sensitive with other folks. But still, you get to work well together. And getting to that truth can also be a little bit of a clumsy process as well.

Leslie Ehm 12:44
Oh, there's so much to unpack there. I mean, first of all, swagger show this is

Shark 12:49
trying to help explain a lot of my own mistakes over the last couple decades.

Leslie Ehm 12:52
So there should, swagger shows up the way that you are authentically. So there's no there's no way that swagger, swagger doesn't doesn't mean that you walk around with that, that front. You know, swagger can be very quiet, if you're introverted, your swagger is going to be more quiet and more reserved. If you're a geek, it's going to manifest that way. If you're more playful, go for it. It is it is just really you embracing and accepting who you really are. So I think that that the key to swagger is that it can't just be about you. There are three key swagger drivers there. That's truth, intention, and self belief. So we want you to speak your truth, we want the real you to be heard in the world. But you've got to balance it with your intention. Why do I want to speak that truth? Why do I think it's important for other people to hear? What do I think is going to be the result of that? And if it's just about you, that is not swaggering? You've got to think about if it's, it's good for me and for the collective and for the greater good? Because only through that, are you going to really be able to manifest true swagger. Because if you want your truth to land, if you want to be heard in this world, you have to reframe your truth, not change it, not diminish it, but reframe it in such a way that others recognize that it's not just a benefit to you, but been a benefit to them, and to the greater good. All of a sudden, everybody has time for it, you know. So if you're in a meeting, and you want to, you know, speak up, in order to make yourself look better, and make somebody else look less good. It's not going to go well for you. Because your intention is out of whack. If you're if you're trying to challenge a convention, because you want to be known as the person who is the you know, you know what, disturber it's not going to go well, people aren't going to accept it. But if it's genuinely because you think it's hurting people, and you you frame it as such to say hey, I'm really concerned that that we have something in place that's not allowing everybody in this on this team or in this room to bring all of their stuff. To the party. So I wanted to share that let's talk about whether whether you agree with that with that perspective. So now everyone's like, oh, wait a second, you know, anybody if you say, and I think that that's hurting the team in the long run. So I'm here for the team, you want to talk about that. And people have a tendency to go, oh, okay, because they understand your intention. And they understand that you're not self, self self, me, me, me. Because nobody cares about we, human nature. We all care about ourselves. So if you can make things about being a benefit to others, people have way more time to listen to you. Yeah, and

Shark 15:33
that's a great point. Because I've fallen into that wrong way of defining this again, I was thinking about my own personal bombastic nature. And that's not the right way. But you know, I love that you also pointed out for introverts and how they can still exhibit swagger. What's the dangerous side to faking? swagger, the peril of fake it till you make it? Oh,

Leslie Ehm 15:51
it's really bad idea, bad advice to give bad advice to take is the thing that you're trying to fake. That's what most people fall into. I know, it's because the thing that you're trying to fake is confidence. We all think that confidence is a magic bullet that keeps us you know, what keeps this perfect, you know, facade in place. If I come across as confident, I'm good to go. If you Google, how do I come across as more competent on average is about 350 million different responses, and most of them are about how to fake it. Okay, so everybody thinks that confidence is the the, you know, the golden the golden ticket kind of thing. But But the thing is, you cannot fake confidence, it's not possible. The only way you can experience legit confidence is as a result of competence. Only by doing something over and over and over again, and proving to your own resistant brain that you fundamentally know what you're talking about. And you know, what you're doing at the level in the place that you are, only then can you will you the natural byproduct of that is confidence. You go into meeting and people can challenge you and you go, Okay, you've challenging me, but here's what I know to be true. And here's what I've experienced. And you don't you don't get shocked by that all the time. But when you're trying to fake confidence, what you're telling people is I know everything, I got it, I'm all over it. I have all of this experience and all this competence. Well, now you've screwed yourself, because you can't ask for help. You can't go to people with more confidence with more experience more wisdom and say, Hey, can you help me out? Can you help me to be better? Can you help me to grow? Can you help me to evolve? because now you're outed as a liar. And then you're going to walk around with burdened by the imposter syndrome like bigtime, legit imposter syndrome, because you are an imposter because you are trying to fake it. So and also, what happens is that, if you rely on that, on that, that confidence thing too much if if that becomes your happy place, anytime you want to grow or evolve, or change or step out of your comfort zone, you get punted out of confidence anyway and back into the competence building. It's like the lobster who has to shed its you know, shed its shell in order to to get bigger, you become vulnerable in that you better get used to it sooner rather than later. The otherwise you're gonna just be paralyzed, you're gonna stay stuck, and you won't be willing to, to step out of that in order to become better, because you're like, I'm good where I am. So we need to learn to accept where we are in our journeys. Because who's kidding who, we all come from a place of nothing, we all start with, I don't know, squat. Everybody, like we all came from there. And and we have to stop, you know, we we get we get arrogant in that process. We're like, Oh, I'm here now. So people who are lower, lower down, I'm an amusing little quote, marks who are, who are, you know, not as far along in their journey, I'm going to give them a really hard time about where they are, because I've forgotten, or I'm kidding myself that I was never there. Yes, you were some compassion, have some empathy for where people are in their journey and be a contributor to their growth instead of a detractor from where they are in their thing. I just want to smack people sometimes, you know, it's so it's so lacking in like the most fundamentals of, of the human condition. Plus, if you are in the faculty and make it thing to a big degree, Cornell University did a study. And they identified something called the Dunning Kruger effect. And what they discovered is that if you smoke your own crack a little too much, you start getting high on your own supply. And you start believing that you are actually smarter, better, more competent than you are, which means that you now are stuck in this arrogance and ignorance thing. We've all seen that happen in like politics, that's bad, because what happens is you lose the ability to make good decisions. because by definition, those decisions are largely uninformed. But you don't care because you think you're all that and you can admit that you need the input of other people who know more than you about a whole bunch of things.

Shark 19:40
I love this section later on in the book, how do we go about separating the person from the persona I thought that was a fantastic way of kind of taking a step back and looking at what maybe how you perceive yourself versus how you're really perceived.

Leslie Ehm 19:53
Well, I mean, you know, it was a really easy way to do it is to say, okay, when I go to work, how do I Dress talk act versus how do I dress talk act when I'm with, you know, my best friend, for instance, fourth grade, or when I'm with my family or when I'm with the people who know me the best to trust me if there's a gap. That's the swagger. Yeah, but there's a gap, you know, that one is persona, and one is person. And we've all done it, you know, if you if you go to work, and you are laden with acronyms, and you are all about the business, buzzword bullshit, and you, you find yourself like you're I always say to people, ask yourself, if you're standing in front of a room presenting, ask yourself, if your best friend from like 10th grade, walked into the room, would they sit in the back and laugh hysterically at you and go, who are you what the hell has happened to you, you know, who have you become, you know, there is a big gap. And I'm not talking about professionalism here. You know, it's got nothing to do with professionalism, professionalism is being committed to the work that you're doing, contributing meaningfully to the to the team, collaborating, being accountable for the work that you do, being in your place of excellence, you know, not dropping the ball, being respectful of your colleagues, that's got nothing to do with being real. And being playful, if you're playful, being goofy being, you know, being introverted, being you know, being colloquial, being physical, all of those things are human. And we know we have to walk a very fine line in that in that PC thing. But I will not be held accountable for other people's lack of tolerance or lack of acceptance, I am not going to work to the lowest common denominator, I am going to be intention forward. So if I offend somebody, very often, it's on them. It's not on me. If I do something truly offensive, you know, I'll own it. But if I check my intention before I do things, and my intention is never to offend. and stuff, I could still speak my truth. And if it offends someone, I know that that's on you. That's like the equivalent of going into the airport, going over to the baggage carousel, picking up somebody else's baggage taking your home and wearing their dirty underwear on your head. No, no, I'm not gonna wear your dirty underwear on my head. You know, not gonna do it.

Shark 22:11
So a part I enjoyed later in the book was talking about being challenged. And I think that's where a lot of people really sort of put on a guard, if you will, but being unapologetic about intention. So you wrote, the final word on intention is about what to do when others question or challenge it. And I think this is really impactful, to your point that this is not just about corporate professionalism, this is the same thing you would have with your friends or family or your co workers. So what do you do when you're challenged with exhibiting some unapologetic swagger, if you will?

Leslie Ehm 22:44
Well, when you are clear on what your intention is going into a situation, then it It acts as a little bit of a get out of jail free card, because if somebody questions you could say, Well, okay, my intention here was to accomplish x, y, and Zed. If I didn't, if you feel I didn't accomplish that, tell me how I could have done that better. So now I want to put it on them. I don't, you know, you're gonna judge me, you're gonna question my intention, you better come forward with with, with something tangible as opposed to just judgment. I'm not interested in your judgment. I'm interested in your, in your feedback, I'm interested in in you contributing to the solution. But don't just tell me that I somehow became part of the problem. So I put the onus back on the other person and say, Own your judgement of me, tell me how you feel I could have, I could have achieved my intention better, because I'm always open to hearing constructive feedback. But I don't care about people's criticism. I only take criticism from people that I deeply respect. And in that context, it's never criticism. It's feedback. It's, they're genuinely trying to help me see something or be better. So any form of criticism to me is an acceptable, I want feedback, I want Let me tell you how I think this could have been better for you or for for me or for us or the greater and then I'll still take it with a pinch of salt to listen and go, Okay, I hear what you're saying. Let's have a conversation. But I'm not I'm not accepting anybody else's criticism, not therefore it

Shark 24:16
suppose to our truth a little bit once you've achieved that ultimate swagger, if you will, once you get past this to all those swagger blockers, and you've defined what it is and what that truth is to you, that you describe late in the book. What's that point or part where you recognize, you know, I'm here now, I'm at my ultimate swagger, with air quotes around it. You've got to get to some point. I mean, you're always continuing to grow. Yeah, it's a journey. It's, at some point, you got to take us a stop along that journey and think I'm at a good place.

Leslie Ehm 24:49
Yeah, I think I think there are there, you know, progressive milestones. You know, I think, I think if you if you find that you're no longer walking away from situations saying Oh, I wish I would have said that, or I wish I would have done that, you know that you're that you've been manifesting your swagger. If you're no longer behaving like a robot, you're not you're not behaving in the way that you think you should behave. And you're not. You're not assimilating heavily. But you're, you're, you're becoming more of your unique self. I think that is another another milestone, I think people will also tell you that they see you coming into yourself, they'll give you they'll give you appreciation for Hey, that was great, how you stood up in that meeting, or how you own that or how you seem to be so much more yourself in that presentation, or in that meeting, or that situation. Or thank you for telling me the truth. You really, you spoke the truth. And I really appreciate that. You also stopped sweating the small stuff, you know, those little things, the little screw ups, the little things, the little full pause, you stop that that insecurity churn is no longer there, like, Oh, I wish I should have said that. Or I wonder if that's gonna blow back on me and all that kind of stuff. You're like, hey, it's all good. I spoke my truth that was in my place of swagger. And I'm not worried about the repercussions because again, that's on someone else. It's not on me, I can deal with it. You don't you don't worry about the haters in the same way. You know, you go haters gonna come. That's all it's all good. They're gonna come. Because haters don't hate on the common folk, you're just giving them something, you're sort of holding up a mirror to them for something that they're not able to do. They don't have a lot of power, which is why they try and come for years. And the more swagger you have, the more you're tapping into your legit power, and they don't like it. They don't like it. So they will come for your power, they will try and take you back down to the place that makes them comfortable. But you don't care anymore. You don't let them do it. You just kind of go. Whatever you do you bow I'm gonna do me. That's my favorite. You do you bow.

Shark 26:40
So obviously, we had conversations beforehand as well. But I'm curious. How do you apply this in your own life and also to writing this book? Because having a similar bombastic personality, it obviously exudes who you are in your book. It's it's very Leslie.

Leslie Ehm 26:57
Yeah, that was my number one goal I had, well, I two goals for this book. One was I come from a training background. So I didn't want this book to just be fluffy, fluffy, inspirational. You know, with some stories thrown in, I wanted it to be a literal, how to unleash your swagger. So it holds your hand step by step, there are exercises in it, it is progressive, it covers all bases. And it will be your constant companion in that journey. So I wanted that for the start. And the other thing is that I wanted the book to be the exact same as being in the room with me hanging out with me talking to me, me coaching You, Me training you, me going out for beers with you. So the tone of it had to feel like me, it had to be, you know, even though it was focused on the business world, primarily, because that's where I had done a lot of this work. I didn't want it to feel like business bullshit, and how did it just had to be real and authentic. So I was very focused on that. I was like, I'm not going to I'm not going to read a million business books. I'm not modeling myself on anyone, I'm just going to do what I do with my tone, and with the way that I speak and the way that I interact with other humans. So that's, that was the most important thing to me. And I think I did that pretty well. Because you know, people who know me go like I listen to you when you're

Shark 28:14
very shy and withdrawn, and you don't know who you really are. So Leslie, you're on A Shark's Perspective with a guy nicknamed shark. What's your favorite kind of shark and why? Which shark has the most swagger?

Leslie Ehm 28:27
Well, I actually swam with sharks once. But they were gonna tell me it's nurse ever nurse shark so it doesn't really count. But it was still so incredible, because they're so gentle and so beautiful. And like, they were just, they were just in our space and very happy to be in our space. And I just picked up this beautiful gentle energy and I was just with them. So I can, you know, I think it really helped me to to develop a whole different level of respect for them, because I understood just like people, they come in all shapes and sizes, all different kinds of attitudes and, and different kind of, you know, levels of aggression and you know, and stuff, and that we should respect them as the sort of the varied species that they are and I was just very grateful to be able to be in their presence. It was really cool.

Shark 29:14
Now I've swam with them not that long ago myself so well, well Leslie it special time the show. Are you ready for the five most interesting and important questions that you're gonna be asked today? Oh, my God, bring it I'm so excited. I love it. All right. Well, we bring down that level of excitement a little bit. Number one, William Shakespeare or Tennessee Williams, we're talking famous playwright.

Leslie Ehm 29:38
I'm gonna have to go with Shakespeare, because he kind of set the tone for, for what the structure of story was. So he

Shark 29:47
would be it would have to be Shakespeare for you because swagger first appeared as a word and amid Sutton immediately in a mid summer night stream in 1600. homespun, have we swaggering here with Yeah. Hey, I'll take it. So, you

Leslie Ehm 30:05
know, people say that if they think it's an urban term and I'm like, Yeah, 16th century my friends, so, you know, everybody could be could be accused of, you know, taking it on in their own in their own in their own century. Yeah.

Shark 30:18
Alright, number two we talked about Annie Lennox who I love best your rhythmic songs, Sweet dreams or what I lie to you. Which would you rather cover? If you were singing it?

Leslie Ehm 30:32
I would do our super soli version of sweet dreams. Probably. What I lie to you is anthemic. It's like it's super what I love, but I think I would do I think you could play you could cover Sweet dreams more effectively. You can make it this beautiful ballad You know, I think I think I would do that as super sweet dreams is fantastic.

Shark 30:54
It's one of the greatest songs ever. Alright, number three, caffeinated or decaf,

Leslie Ehm 31:01
caffeinated. I know to a point though, to a point because you don't want me after five cups of coffee dude. I'm like,

Shark 31:07
I thought that's what you're on now. I'm on three on three. Okay. Alright, number Well, I just finished my cafe press. So I get it. Alright. Number four people from Toronto that exhibit swagger? Well, Drake or Keanu Reeves? Oh, canneries. 100%. I think he's one of the best definitions of swagger.

Leslie Ehm 31:26
Yeah, yeah. Cuz you don't you don't see that coming. You know, like he is. You know, he is not that the the character that he plays in movies. He is very much his own beautiful, gorgeous, soulful, intense, kind of hippie ish self. He is not john wick, you know, and he's very comfortable playing those roles. And he gets that that's something that he does to make money, but he doesn't try and fool us in any way shape or form and he doesn't take himself seriously, which is a hallmark of swagger. Someone who does not, you know, step into that that kind of jam, so I got mad love for canneries.

Shark 32:03
Yeah, I don't know that it would describe in the same way but I actually think he is like every one of his characters because it's him. Alright, number five in the most important question that you're going to be asked today is biscuits or cornbread. I finally stumped her.

Leslie Ehm 32:21
I think I'm gonna have to go with cornbread, because it's more like cake.

Shark 32:25
Okay, so

Leslie Ehm 32:26
that's that hit a sweet you know, when you go to a good like a church supper, and you get that cornbread on the side and you're like, you're looking at it going? Do I eat it with everything to offset the saltiness or do like, wait to the end and have it as my dessert whereas a biscuit is there to top up gravy?

Shark 32:47
Can Canadians actually have swagger though? Yeah, you're very apologetic as a culture.

Leslie Ehm 32:54
We are kind as a culture. And it manifests in apologies, a lot. But I think that we are a very swaggering nation because we are so incredibly diverse. We are far more accepting of people than other cultures are. We? We are I mean, we still have some shameful shit in our past that we are trying to, you know, work on. But we are fundamentally a place that welcomes diversity. We we welcome and we we are grateful for the diversity of humanity and their diversity of thought. So I think I think we're super

Shark 33:33
well Canada very much exhibits the pratfall effect, that yes, your earring is a culture for an apologize. So, Leslie, where can people find out more about you follow your thoughts on swagger, get the book and more.

Leslie Ehm 33:45
You can find me at Leslie m.com le s Li e h m.com. You can check out the book. It's swagger, the book calm and you can get it on every good book selling platform because you know, Wall Street Journal USA Today, baby, you could get it everywhere. And I love I love being goofy and playful and soulful on social. So please come and play with me on Instagram at Leslie m speaks, because I take what I do really seriously. I don't take myself that seriously. So I try and have a lot of fun, but but provide a lot of a lot of soulful value at the same time.

Shark 34:20
Well, Leslie, thank you so much for being with us today on A Shark's Perspective.

Leslie Ehm 34:24
It can't have a better better way to start today than hanging out with a shark.

Shark 34:28
There you go. I would agree with that.

Shark 34:35
So there was my conversation with Leslie m the speaker, swagger coach and the author of The Wall Street Journal usa today and Amazon best selling book swagger, unleash everything you are and become everything you want. Let's take a look at three key takeaways from my conversation with her.

Shark 34:50
First, her research showed that to hurt a human truth was that most people at their core didn't feel like they could become who they really were. And they didn't think they were good enough. The rewards, she began focusing our training on helping people and companies overcome that. And I love the point she made though, and I'm paraphrasing in that you can train all you want. But if people don't believe they're worthy or can apply those skills, then they don't work. And it's just laying new skills on a shaky foundation. It's a great point, especially when you consider how we look at training and improvement. But don't stop to think if there's a deeper foundational issue or core to fix before we just throw spaghetti on the wall.

Shark 35:28
Second, how do you define swagger? She says in a quote, that it's the ability to manifest who you really are, and hold on to it in the face of all that psychological crap that's going to come for it, regardless of the situation or environment would agree with that, know that the way you are is the only way you should be. She brings up the example of your childhood friend seeing you years later, while you're presenting in a business meeting. If you look different from who you are with a fake persona that a childhood friend could recognize, well, then there's a problem. It's a gap. So you be you boo, and quit trying to fit into someone or something else that you're not.

Shark 36:02
Third, great content on faking it and using confidence in quotation marks as part of an imposter syndrome. Self Awareness doesn't often exist. For those that don't own a mirror. Many can tell so many lies that they become ignorant or arrogant. And that's always a recipe for disaster. True swagger comes from a lot of confidence inside. It's being authentic and knowing who you are not some peacock walk, masking some insecurity. So if you're going to walk like Conor McGregor, well, then you'd better be able to back it up because at that point, you won't be able to fake it or make it once they close and lock up the cage.

Shark 36:36
Got a question? Send me an email to Kenneth at A Shark's Perspective dot com. Thank you again for the privilege of your time. I'm so thankful to everybody listens. And thank you to the amazing sponsors invoke interrupts would you consider writing review and let me know your thoughts on the show? I'd really appreciate it though. In closing, I know that sharks have a lot of swagger. And you know why? It's because they're sharks. Please join us on the next episode of A Shark's Perspective.
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