****Please forgive any and all transcription errors as this was transcribed by Otter.ai.****

(Music - shark theme)

Kenneth Kinney 0:16

Hello and welcome back to A Shark’s Perspective.

Kenneth Kinney 0:18

Obviously COVID-19 Completely has changed the way we look at conferences and events and so many of them have shifted to virtual. However, just because you might be a good professional speaker, a good free note or good in an inner office environment, or as a professor, for example, that doesn't necessarily make you a good virtual speaker. Unless you've learned from a lot of the experience. The virtual experts practice today, and there are a few different things to keep in mind.

Kenneth Kinney 0:42

Terry Brock is a certified speaking professional and inductee into the speaker Hall of Fame, a recipient of the National Speakers Association's Cavett Award, a virtual presentation expert, and author, a syndicated columnist, social media marketing speaker and technology expert.

Kenneth Kinney 0:56

And on this episode, we'll discuss being a Hall of Fame speaker virtual events versus in person being better and virtual using tools like zoom, how to position yourself as a communicator, focusing on problem solving, physical distancing, and social connections. Blue yetis picking up Tony Robbins to the airport, Calvin Coolidge, and a lot, lot more.

Kenneth Kinney 1:15

So let's tune in to a Hall of Fame speaker with a Hall of Fame shark on this episode of A Shark’s Perspective.

[intro music]

Kenneth Kinney 1:26

Thank you so much for joining us today on A Shark’s Perspective. You know, for those in the world that haven't seen you present on the stage or virtually from a mobile device somewhere, would you mind giving our audience a little bit about your background, your story your career today?

Terry Brock 1:38

Sure. I'm a communicator, I speak and I write I've been writing since I was a kid and second grade writing and doing journalism and writing and in high school undergrad degree was in radio, TV newspaper. And I'm a speaker, professional speaker and honored to have been admitted to the speaker Hall of Fame. So I bounced around the world and 44 countries and counting to date, and showing individuals as well as corporations, how to use tools like technology, video, and others, to connect with people and to build relationships. And so I have fun. Basically, I get paid now, for what I used to get sent to the principal's office for a

Kenneth Kinney 2:17

while and I also read and congratulations, of course you also 20 What year was that 2018 That you got the

Terry Brock 2:23

career was 22,009 I received the admission to the speaker Hall of Fame. And then in 2018, I received the cabinet which has the highest award the National Speakers Association, I was very honored and surprised on that you don't know that's coming in. It's like I'm thinking, Oh, it's somebody else I can think of 20 other people that would be deserving. And then they announced my name. And it literally the room was spinning around. And I've been drinking nothing but water. And I was like, Well, what's going on. But I was honored.

Kenneth Kinney 2:49

I also worked in radio for several years, I started out doing that I don't have the voice that you do. I love just listening to you. And a couple of podcasts remind me of good radio voices. But what made you transition out of radio just out of curiosity?

Terry Brock 3:04

Well, I'm still kind of using it sort of I started in radio when I was 17. I worked for family life radio, Wu and n 11:10am in Mason on the dial here. And so we're talking about that. And then I undergrad school, majored in it. And then I worked in radio, I've one of my first jobs out once I got out of undergrad school. So I loved it, I feel that it's really communication we're using do we use audio, we use text, and we communicate with people, whatever the tool of the day might be. I've seen lots of tools come and go in the few years I've been on the planet. And I find it today using podcasts, I now have a podcast, and I have a video do YouTube channels. And I find that what we really want to do is communicate a message that helps people make their lives better.

Kenneth Kinney 3:48

They're great. I started out when I was 16 Reading sports scores in a local market. And then we go right you know, in west of here, but not that many years ago, I was doing a radio show locally here and loved it. It's just so much fun to do radio. But the problem is that, you know, schedules are horrible. You can't commit to being somewhere at eight o'clock in the morning or three in the afternoon if you've got a normal day job. And so podcasting has just been sort of my flavor of choice ever since. But I also read about your background. And I'd love to know how does one become the chief retail advisor of Ace Hardware International? And more importantly, what kind of discount does that get you in store online?

Terry Brock 4:31

Well, I did not get a discount, but I loved the people there and worked with it was a real honor. And really it's like so many things in life happen, because this led to this led to this that led to that. And so it was someone who knew somebody who knew somebody who knew somebody and recommended me to come and help them ace was looking for someone to help training helping in learning how they can use their retailers can use video and deploy that and speak about what's going on with technology. And so they went to someone and who they knew was in Orlando because they had a convention coming up in Orlando. And that person didn't know anyone. So she went to someone she knew. And then this person went to me. And it was a direct relation, because I'm a member of the National Speakers Association. And this person knew me and recommended me to this other person who then recommended me to another. So eventually, it happened and had a wonderful time being there. And working with them talking about something that I don't know as much about retail is not my real area of expertise. But I do know how to communicate. I do know how to interview. So I could interview some of the experts in the entire world on things like inventory management, stocking, building in store traffic, and those kinds of things that are important in retail. And I think that's the key is learn how to learn in today's environment. Now, and going forward, the more you can learn how to learn and how to ask questions, the better off you'll be, oh, you know, shark, I find it really interesting that a lot of people when they get a chance to be around someone, all they talk about is themselves. Yeah, rather than asking questions about the other a good test is find out after a conversation after 510 minutes or so, how many times did the person use the word I? versus how many times did they use you? How many questions did they ask versus how many statements did they make in talking? And I find that the smartest people, at least that I've seen in my limited experience my non scientific random sampling, I find the people who ask the questions, and step back going, what do you think about this? I don't know, tell me why you think that way, are the people who do best versus the ones who tend to be very arrogantly ignorant. And they talk about political and political, or economic or historical things that they don't really know much about, but they really go after it. And they're trying to impress others. I think it shows, maybe there's something going on psychologically, I don't know. I'm not a psychologist. But I think it's we learn a lot when we ask more questions than making I statements.

Kenneth Kinney 6:56

Agree, you think, Oh, I agree, I can. And I'm gonna get more self conscious now about saying I than I do. Um, but I do consider myself a subject matter learner, not an expert. And unless somebody is continuously learning, continuously curious and genuinely curious about what the other person has to say, which is why I don't over promote myself. For this show. For example, I want to learn from everybody that I'm speaking with, and that's, you know, a genuine thing for me. Now,

Terry Brock 7:24

yeah, you've done that very well. And put down the issues that you've had before and went back and listened to someone it really good. And those of you listening to this, go back and listen to what shark has done. There's a wealth of information there that you can learn from the geniuses that he's tapped into. And the wonderful way he's been able to talk with him and connect with them. So shark on behalf of all your listeners, thank you for what you're doing.

Kenneth Kinney 7:44

I appreciate it. I pulled this from a movie, but Rodney Dangerfield did a movie years ago, where he surrounded himself in a commercial with larger people than him. And he said, you know, the way to make yourself look thin is to surround yourself with fatter people. And it was a joke was one of his comedies, of course. And I've done the same thing just by surrounding everybody else with a much bigger mind than mine. So let's jump in a little bit into speaking and what we're talking about here. So I've seen you speak. But one of the things I mentioned before we started recording is that having seen you speak and then seeing your profile grow. And I've heard you in some other podcasts talking as well about virtual speaking is I'm very interested in how you look at the virtual market today. Because, one, there has been a huge influx of speakers over the last few years. It's a great profession. You know, I'm in there as well speaking at a ton of venues, or at least I was before COVID. There's so many people jumping into this. And virtual speaking, though, is something that not everybody has the expertise to do. Maybe they don't understand the differences and nuances. But I'm, I'm kind of curious how you see the market today with what's going on all over the world with COVID A lot of the conferences and things like that moving, or is this just sort of another day in the life for you to deliver a great presentation to someone?

Terry Brock 9:02

Well, it's definitely a trend and it's something that is emerging it was even before the COVID 19 virus, yet we're seeing because of several trends that are happening. Number one is we've got stronger bandwidth now. It's much better. And we can do a lot of the work that we need to do particularly with audio and video from almost anywhere. Now with 4g and 5g on the way that affects it. And we also have better video, much better quality video, you can do 1080 video 720 is still probably the best to get more usage and get more people but very soon will be a forte when we see 5g Come in. And I think also the audio quality is better. I remember the days when Skype was getting started. We considered it a really good Skype call when it crashed only four times in 30 minutes. It was like that was it and nothing against it was just that was the technology of the day. And so now it's there. But then I think the most important though, the key element that's pushing the virtual acceptance is people believe in it more People know how to use it more now worldwide. They're more used to seeing someone on a screen now that we have this crisis that's going on with the virus, and we hope we get it solved as soon as possible. We are now more accepting, because we see this is the way to connect with people. The key right now people are saying we need to have social distancing. I understand what they're saying. And I agree with the principle, but I disagree with the way they're phrasing that. We don't need social distancing. We need physical distancing. Yeah. Physical distancing? Absolutely. You know, this is science, stay the six feet, at least away, grab us the mask, those kind of things. Absolutely. But we really need social connections, and the social connections rather than social distancing, I think it's important and we can do that virtually done the right way. I've been in many meetings in the last week, last two weeks, where people have gathered on a screen, we get together with a lot of people, Gina Carr, my partner and I will throw a virtual meeting. And we have a virtual happy hour. I think last week, we did another one of those where we said, hey, everybody bring your drinks. What are you drinking? Tonight? It was a water, is it tea? Is it wine, vodka, whatever it is, you know, you choose, and you get a chance to do it. And people would just say, wow, this really helps me. This is something I needed, because I'm going stir crazy here. And I have that connection with people. Is it the same as physical? No, of course not. But it's nice to be able to quickly do it, and do it with people who have a similar common interest, not based on geography, but based on values based on philosophy. So you could get all the people who I'm going to make up some hypothetical here that are really into 67 Ford Chevy's, you know, or start Fortunately, you know, Ford, and Chevy, or whatever, you know, whatever the group might be people that are interested in the given topic. And they say we all want to get together and they're showing different items they might be knitting, and they show what they're doing, they can hold it up to the camera and see it. It is a wonderful thing that we have this and I really appreciate it. I think we're really better off today than we were long ago. Because think about what if we had had this Corona virus back in the 1950s, or the 1960s, we would not obviously be able to connect with each other other than maybe over telephone a little bit when we could get on the party line. Remember that? Yeah. Yeah, let's say, oh, we can't do it. Because her be down the road. There's using the phone on the phone right now. And we're all on the party line on that. Today. It's no big deal. You and I can connect. You're in Memphis, I'm here in Orlando, we connect with each other. And it's almost as if I were right there in Memphis, I called you up, we go, Hey, shark, I'm right down the street from you at fourth in Maine, etc. You're Altera, there's a coffee shop there. And we got together at the coffee shop, we sat and chatted and talked. We're doing this now virtually. And I think it's wonderful to be alive today. Matter of fact, I would say even with the virus, it's better to be we're better off being alive today than any other point in history. And I would welcome a discussion. Show me another point in history. Give me a time, give me a place, geography doesn't matter. Wherever. Where are they? We're better off than they are than we are today. Even with the virus we're doing well.

Kenneth Kinney 13:06

Yeah, when my parents and grandparents on the other side were coming out of World War Two, they didn't have to endure, not having Netflix, and tick tock and having stuff shipped by Amazon to their doorstep. I mean, this was not you know, when I hear about the anxiety, I sometimes laugh a little too much about it. And I know it's real, I had this conversation on a different podcast. But at the same time, we are so much luckier today than than anything else in history, I guess, you know, for anything social, and learning how to not be socially distant, which my niece has been doing. You know, I think for a lot of young people, socially, this was a way that they live their life today before the virus, it was sin tackling tweets and things like that, as opposed to connecting the way we're doing, you know, virtually by phone or anything else, I think it's going to be a big change. But when you're talking to an event group, when do you argue and say, No, this speech needs to be in person? Or do you even have that opportunity? Does that conversation come up where they say we'd love for you to do a virtual event? Have you ever gone to them and said, Yeah, I think this would be better if it's done in person.

Terry Brock 14:16

I think it depends. There's a place for both. I have done both I, for 36 years, been a professional speaker. So my job is getting on an airplane fly to Memphis, Vegas, Detroit, Tokyo, London, wherever I'm going and stand up in front of a group of people talk to them, communicate verbally, showing them new concepts, new ideas, and they pay me a nice check. And then I come back home. And that's what I've done. But I find that now people want the virtual, not just because of a cost savings. That was a big factor initially, but right now it's more the frequency. And when it's done right, it can be done well if it was only like a YouTube video, and you got a real excuse my language you're boring. boring on there and doing a presentation. That's really bad. You're just sitting back there and what's happening with so many of the webinars, you know, shark, you know what's going on? They're saying, yeah, yeah, I'm listening to you Sure, sure keeps talking, yeah, I'm looking at you. And I'm typing on my phone here, I'm listening on my phone, I'm doing that. Well, that is not a good way to do it. A professional has an interactive presentation, whether they're doing virtually or in person, our world wants that today, I see that happening, particularly in the Western cultures. But even over in Asia, I see that happening. Also, people want that interaction. And when you can do that virtually, as well as in person, it's good, I think there are just different tools to deploy your communication message, print has a place, audio alone has a place, video has a place. And it's up to the communication expert to determine which tool is the best to deploy in each given situation.

Kenneth Kinney 15:52

So if you're on a zoom call, for example, as opposed to being in person, what do you find is sort of a secret for you, or a secret maybe a tip for you as to how to make it more interactive, with an audience with somebody who's either sitting in a conference room with other co workers, or they're at their home doing that, because I just delivered a presentation yesterday to a school group. And it really made me watch and listen to professors all over the country who maybe they're not professional speakers, although they speak every day in front of a classroom of people, or they're not professionally paid speakers rather. But they're really even sort of challenged now in this virtual role, other than just being able to connect on tech, being able to deliver great presentations that sparked the minds of these young people to learn. And I find that very interesting to watch the mannerisms that people have, how they move and interact. And, you know, doing a lecture in front of a chalkboard or a whiteboard, for example, is much different than being interactive with a group of people on a zoom call. So what are your tips and tricks, I guess, if you will, to make it more interactive.

Terry Brock 16:55

There's several that I talk about, I do a lot of work with clients, who are professionals, showing them how they can use the tools of video to help reach their clients, their customers, the members, whatever term they're using, for those wonderful people who pay the bills. I think one of the keys is variety. The last thing you want is to have one person on a screen talking like this for an hour, and they're talking like this all the time giving message, it might be really good information. But very quickly, your audience is going to zone out, you're fighting against the internet, because there's all kinds of other messages they can get. They can check their their social on Facebook, on Twitter, they can jump over into check text, they can look at their email, all of this is what you're fighting against variety in having change going back and forth, for instance, in Skype, or excuse me in zoom, one of the things that I think is really nice, you can switch back and forth between speaker view and gallery view. Right, right. And by doing that, it keeps the eye going, oh, something's different here. I got to pay attention to our brains at the amygdala level at the core reptilian level, from back when we were in the Serengeti set up, something has changed. I'm gonna watch this, I've got to watch out. Is that a tiger back there? Or is it just the wind blowing this grass back and forth? You know, those who said, Oh, it's just a great don't worry about and it was a tiger are no longer with us. They're their descendants, those who said, Oh, no, and they jumped back. Even if it wasn't just the grass, they paid attention. So what you want to do is keep changing. And one of the ways to do that is speaker view to gallery view and zoom. Another would be sharing your screen by sharing your screen and go, oh, I want to show you this really cool website. And you go over and show that or you go through PowerPoint or Keynote slides, keeping them interesting, not boring, don't put, oh, this drives me nuts. When I see it, they put a whole screen of text on there and then start reading it. Well, what's happening is they're reading at this speed, but our brains are reading it about four times that fast. And I'm reading what's down there at the bottom, while you're talking about this, meaning my brain is split in two different ways. And I'm not going to retain it. So there's some real skills that you want to create. And keep within you. These are the kinds of things that are really important. I talk to people about it often about how to create the skills to use them so that you keep attention. People enjoy it. Do a lot. By the way, one of the things you can do with Zoom that's really nice, is use breakout rooms. Yeah, so you can say, all right, we're going to talk about these four topics. And you can either assign people to that. Or you can say, Here's over here is Group A where we're going to talk about Uchiwa floppers. And over here to get you wigs and then on the third what will be the news, and whatever. And people can go to those groups, much like we've done for years in physical meetings, where we say, get together with the people at your table or in groups of two or three. And we're going to talk about this question, put a question up there and then come back after a given period of time 510 minutes or so and get answers from them. You can do that now virtually with zoom in it's a wonderful technique for keeping people involved.

Kenneth Kinney 19:57

It might not have been Tigers that they saw on the back background. It might have been Tiger King on Netflix I might have been there Ted could have been. Yeah. Modern era. So should you position yourself then for as a virtual speaker? Should somebody develop that persona and be known for that? I mean, even when I look at you, somebody that's been doing this for a lot of years as a speaker, speaker, both virtually and on stage, your positioning, if you will, is as an expert speaker, even though I recognize you as an expert, virtual speaker, on your website, they're all pictures and video in front of a stage. It's not sitting at your chair in your office, you know, moving your hands talking around to me. So overly simplistic, of course, but should you position yourself in the market as a virtual speaker, do you think

Terry Brock 20:44

I think you should position yourself not so much as a speaker. But more as a communicator who solves problems, I've often said what we need to do is look at ourselves as CSPs. In the National Speakers Association, we have a designation called AS certified speaking professional, which I earned many years ago. But I think that CSP as a communicator who solves problems, the key speaking is just the delivery. Writing is another form of delivery. And I think we need to be not so much virtual speaker or an in person, speaker, or whatever, that's just your focus. That's just the delivery mechanism. Don't focus on how you deliver it as much as here's the problem that you have, here's a solution you want, I can take care of that and deliver that for you. So when a company says, Hey, we want you to come in and help us, usually it's because they have some kind of a problem, something is going on, even if it's we need to boost sales this next quarter, or we've got to solve this problem with turnover, we've got to solve a problem with connecting with people more, it's too costly, and we need to do better. You can bring ideas and concepts and deliver that in a variety of ways speaking, writing is a good way to do that. Also, by giving them handouts, by giving them downloads, by giving them retention, enhancing material that they can get later, they can be able to download a video that you have. And put that together, I think what you want to do is to view yourself as a communicator, and deploy a wide variety of tools to deliver including virtual presentations, including in person when appropriate.

Kenneth Kinney 22:12

But not not that long ago, I got back from doing a few dives in some snorkel time. With sharks. It's something I enjoy doing. And I was, I was finally getting some B roll for my speaker demo reel, something I have not wanted to take the tech into the water. But now I'm wondering if I should just grab footage from a chair in my home office and, you know, start start seeing a blend of those two. But I'm curious if you see where and I'll use another speaker, somebody like Vin Jiang that does the magic tricks a lot and stuff like that doesn't work that doesn't have the same impact. Of course, on a video as it does in person is impressive a speaker as he is, as demo reels good. But what you know, when you start looking at your own types of presentations with not necessarily magic props, but just things you do. mannerisms that you find yourself, what do you what are you changing on stage and in person with some sort of proper anything else you might use to converse with?

Terry Brock 23:11

You raise a good point, because a lot of people are dealing with that when I talk to other speakers, sometimes they have to start changing what they're doing and adding new skills. For winter, a friend of mine,

Kenneth Kinney 23:20

I'll give you one more example. You're sitting here with a microphone plugged into your computer. That's a lot different. In some ways. It's you know, mechanically, I think of it much different than if I had a lavalier or, or a country man or held a handheld. It's it's a just a different feeling of what to do with your hands, your body and everything else. And that's a skill that a lot of people work on to Master, what do they do with their hands? So yeah, I

Terry Brock 23:45

think that's critical. Because when you use your hands in a stage situation where you're in person, you're on the stage can be different, you can be a little more broad. Like, for instance, right now I'm holding my hands out here. But anyone watching me on video right now see my hands are off the screen. And then that gets lost. You want to keep them here. This is very much like television. Yes, we've got to look at how do you communicate on television, when it's a tight close up shot or a mid shot that they use in television? How can you relate to that and use that tool? Again, it's a matter of knowing how to use the tool that you have. Sometimes you're on a stage and you have different tools that opportunities there that you don't have virtual, when you're a virtual, you have opportunities that you don't have when you're physically there. And you can now use these if you know them. So you have to learn new skills right now. I think that's a wonderful opportunity that we have in the midst of this crisis that we're going through now. We're confined, we're at home, we have some time that we can learn new skills. And fortunately today, we have the University of YouTube, where you can go to YouTube and learn all kinds of wonderful things. Now you have to be discerning, and you got to have good filters because there's a lot of junk out there that you just don't want to get involved with. It's not to your suiting. It's not going to be the best for you but There's a whole lot of good with YouTube with Netflix, with all kinds of opportunities on Amazon Prime. on Hulu. There's a wonderful source out there if we use it properly. And that's the key discipline your brain to learn how to make the most of this time. It's really more of a stoic idea. Anyway, Epictetus, Marcus are really as Seneca would teach us that we can't change what's going on out there. But what we can change is how we face it, and what we're going to do and how we respond, we are in control of our emotions, we are in control of how we feel. No, I think Eleanor Roosevelt said, No one can make you mad without your permission. Yeah. And it's really up to you. People say, Oh, you made me mad, or you're making me feel bad. Really, they have that much power over you? No, they can't make you do that you have chosen to do that based on what they did. You can instead sit back and go, Ooh, interesting. You've chosen to act that way. That is curious, why do you choose to act that way, which infuriates a lot of people, which is part of the fun too?

Kenneth Kinney 25:58

Well, and that's, that's funny, you say that about the hands and about being, you know, taking them outside of the shot is, back at same time when I was on the radio, just a few years ago, I also worked for a local TV station, and had a show on TV weekly. And I found myself now think about it, doing a lot more wide angle shots for mantras, mainly because my hands were all over the place. But it's such such a difference when the cameraman would say, your hands are off screen, bring them back in. So it's little things like that, that you notice speakers do when they're on the news today, somebody putting their phone way too close, or way too far away, when they're doing some sort of Skype video today with everything going on. But do you think that that meeting planners today are looking for speakers who have expertise as virtual speakers, as opposed to an in person or just a professional speaker? Like yourself? Now you've got the blend of both? But do you run into that a lot where they just want to know how comfortable are you with it versus sort of like saying a YouTube expert versus a real expert.

Terry Brock 27:03

I think they want both. And particularly right now, as we're recording this, they want someone who can present virtually, they want to know how they can do it. Because obviously we can't have physical meetings. This has not happened before ever in history, where we're not able to do it for this prolonged period of time. For this many people, it's a good idea to have it, I've been talking about the benefits of being able to present virtually, for a long time, we'll have a natural disaster hit and a meeting, they were going to have one place they're not able to do for a particular reason, whatever that might be, it's really important to have someone who can adapt, who can improvise, adapt and overcome, as the US Marines talked about, I think we want to be able to adjust in the situation, come up with a new skills to deliver a message because really, they're not interested in the delivery mechanism. Again, it's not about can you do this virtually, can you do it in person, it's, we've got a problem. And we need to solve that problem. What's the best way to do that, and the more tools that you can bring to deploy, the better off you'll be as a communicator, going forward into the 2020s. I got a feeling this is not the last time we're going to see crises yet. Though those had been with human beings for centuries, we can learn a lot from looking how our ancestors dealt with them. What did they do at given times in history when a real crisis was there? Sure their technology was different. Sure, they had different customs different ways of employing what they're going to do. But what we can do is we can learn these tools, learn how to adapt and adjust, as Bruce Lee said, Be the water, adapt and adjust, take different forms and shapes, learn how to do that better, and I think will enhance our chances of succeeding that way.

Kenneth Kinney 28:40

And you just got a couple of points for dropping a Bruce Lee quote. So Oh, yeah,

Terry Brock 28:45

he's one of my heroes. Oh, yeah.

Kenneth Kinney 28:47

Do you find that virtual speakers in general, have a different level of expertise in a subject and ones that work? Better virtually than not? And the reason I asked that is because you've presented are looking at your website, you've got things on blockchain, on social media, Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, relationship, marketing, marketing, those last three are less technical, if you will, than say blockchain those conversations. While you can obviously have them virtually, I've done podcasts on him would be a little bit different, the more technical you get, if you will. So my question is our presentations Do you find that the types of presentations you give gear themselves more one way or the other, whether it goes virtually or in person?

Terry Brock 29:32

On No, it doesn't matter how we're delivering it? What matters is what is the problem that they're facing? And how can we solve that sometimes it is about blockchain they want to know what is this thing but how do cryptocurrencies fit in here? What is Bitcoin? What is bitcoin cash, or other tools? And so I'll talk about that and address that to help them but relationship marketing is a key that I've been talking about for a long time. I wrote a book I said, it's really not about the E commerce, the electronics it's about the Are commerce relationships. It's all about building those relationships, connecting with people, and making sure that you're meeting their needs. And so I think that we're doing that in a way with virtual is good doing it virtually. And doing it physically is important right now we just need to focus on the virtual side because well, that's what we have to deal with, in this suddenly thrust upon us environment.

Kenneth Kinney 30:22

So you don't think the problem though, necessarily, is a better done in person or virtually? If it's a different kind of problem is that a better way to present it, maybe it's not necessarily the topic, but are certain things will be just better in person versus virtually.

Terry Brock 30:38

If you need heart surgery, it's best done in person, rather than virtually. But if it's a topic, no, I think you can do it both ways. And I think that you just might use often a combination, sometimes what you might do is have that physical meeting, when we finally get past all of this, you might meet in Vegas, or Atlanta or wherever, have the meeting, talk to people and then be able to continue that relationship by meeting with them the first Monday of every month for the next six months. And you do that virtually. So a combination of people getting a chance to connect with you. Really important because it really comes down to relationships. And I've seen a lot of people, particularly in the last couple of weeks, that are building good relationships, taking relationships that were there that were nascent, and they let them grow, let them expand because of being there, virtually having the video and the audio is critical. If someone doesn't want to use video, often it's like, well, they're walking into a conference room, but they've got a paper bag over their head. And you know, you're not going to see their face, you're only going to hear them talking about Wait a minute, this is kind of strange. You want to be able to see a person and I get it. Some people say oh, gee, I can't do I don't have my makeup. I don't have my hair just right, I can relate to that I comb my hair particularly well for you today. Sorry, did you like the way I combed it today? I like it, I like it. So I think the key is adapting people building those relationships, and making sure that we can help them to again, solve the problem that they have.

Kenneth Kinney 32:04

So then let's get to the business side of it, because you're a paid speaker as well. And I've heard you and I wish you sort of unpack being a paid speaker who speaks virtually because they're there, obviously, I've heard you talk about what the value, you're still bringing an hour of time, for example, whether you're doing it in person versus virtually. But how does somebody sort of build a living, if you will, around being able to do this virtually when we know that you as well said they want to cut some costs.

Terry Brock 32:36

I think what we got to do is we got to look at the value we can bring to them. I'm a big advocate of what Alan Weiss calls the fee, value based fees. And so that what they're going to do is they've got a problem, what is that problem that needs to be solved? And as soon as we can try to monetize that? How much is it costing them, you figure if they're losing $100 Every month, and they've got 1000 people that are doing the same problem and a particular company? Well, that's 100,000, and they're losing this every month, that's a lot of money. If you can come in and solve that problem, and you charge them $100,000. That's a bargain for them. So what you charge is not based on the hour, who cares whether you took 45 minutes or an hour, what you know how 19th century is that? Instead, what matters is what can we do to solve that problem? And to give you the solution you want, for instance, if you meet someone needs heart surgery, they're talking about life and they need their heart say, do you really care how long the operation is going to take? You know, well, if it's a two hour operation, I'll pay this amount. But if it's a four hour operation, then I'll take this pay this amount, no, we pay to have this problem solved. We want our heart fixed. We want experts and a team of doctors and trained surgeons and wonderful health care professionals to take care of us and to get that taken care of. And so I think we always got to be more curious. And here, this is where asking questions comes in. You ask question to find out what it is that's really going on? What's the underlying problem that they have? I think back to when I was working with ace there, they need several stores needed more foot traffic. They wanted to get more people coming into the store. So how do we do that? Do we have sales we advertising? Do we use video? Do they create some community gatherings show people how they can do certain tasks on video and say we're going to show this opportunity with a free class this coming Saturday afternoon at two o'clock here at our store. When people come into the store. Now you've got that foot traffic and you can offer different bargains to them, show them ways to get involved. Think about how you can help them to solve the problem and your price really should depend on what is at stake. How serious is this and how much do they want for an hour presentation. Okay, we can say yeah, we charge X dollars per hour. There is a place for that but really oriented toward what problems are you going to solve and what value are you going to bring to the place because I find really if you live your life with a suit One kind of concept you do much better. And that concept is always value for value. What can I do that will help you? And what value can you give me? In business? It's real simple. We use currency where US dollars, euros, yen, pound sterling, whatever, Bitcoin or whatever they exchange might be, but also in life, it's value for value. It's asking someone to do something, I'll say, I'll do you a favor, and you do me a favor. We help each other that way. And that's how human beings have always been able to get along better.

Kenneth Kinney 35:31

Yeah, but you're so you're speaking fee, and I have no idea what it is don't want to necessarily No, but let's just use a round number example. Let's say it's $10,000. To deliver a keynote to a group, whether it's a conference or a trade association, or or corporation, the differentiation that that you're making, or maybe that they're looking to do to save cost, it's not necessarily $2,500 that you'd save on hotel and first class accommodations. Are you finding that more people are understanding that value still at for this example, again? $10,000? If they're able to understand that, or do they just do they discount it too early? and think, oh, no, we were only looking to do five for a speaker. And then you've got to backtrack. And if that makes sense,

Terry Brock 36:16

you have to look at what their budget is what they've got, but then address the real issue that you're going to solve. For example, last year, I was asked to speak at a conference in Bogota, Colombia, and be the opening speaker for a big conference with some of the wealthiest people in South and Central America and South America, multi 100 millionaires, multi billionaires, the gentleman who asked me to come down and do that his he and his people, guy named Carlos Slim, Carlos Slim happens to have been the richest man in the world 2010 to 2013. And he wanted me to open the closing speaker, by the way, it was Yvonne Duquesne, the current President of Colombia. And so these people are there they are multi 100, millionaires, billionaires, they wanted me to talk about how they can connect with their employees with their customers more using social media using video. Well, we're talking issues there that are going to generate literally millions of dollars for them. I charged a lot less than $1 million for that, right. But they were able to get value that then they can take those ideas and the concepts, the illustrations that way that I delivered that using fun having some fun, funny, we could do it, making sure that was there and talk to them about that. And it worked out really well. When I was finished with everything. Carlos Slim himself said, Terry, could you come up here and talk? I go, Yeah, sure. We sat down, talked about what to do and how they can deploy this within the various companies he has. I mean, he owns Mexico, basically, he's got oil, and he's a largest single holder of the New York Times. He's got telephones, cell phones down there. He has that. And he's just by the way, personally, one on one, a wonderful man. very gracious, very knowledgeable, very kind, fluent in English and Spanish, and maybe some other languages, too. But I see the key is, again, you want to find value. It's not a matter of you were there for this amount of time, we're going to pay you on an hourly basis or a minute basis or something we're more interested in well, okay, whatever you're going to charge. Is this going to solve the problem? Because if I had said, I'm going to do it for free, would that have been a bargain to them? If I had been really terrible? No, it'd be a waste of time. And so I think we lose track and we start focusing on the feet. Rather than focus on the value and the problem that we're going to solve for them. That means you got to do more than just say, I charge this amount of money. So now, I deliver a keynote for this. I deliver a full day for that. That's my price. I'm sticking to it. Well, okay, good, Sparky. But there's a whole thing if you say, wait a minute, what about that problem you're having in the Nebraska stores and up in the Michigan stores that you're dealing with? And when you're dealing with this, what can we do to solve that problem for you and begin this movement toward that in our meeting that we're going to have in Detroit, this is how you make yourself significant, and how you really enhance value. And by the way, yeah, from a bottom line point of view, that's important when I was studying, getting my MBA, I realized is important to make money. They told us that in business school, it's important to make money. So I thought, Okay, we got to figure that out. But you do it by adding value to the other person. Focus on how you help them

Kenneth Kinney 39:15

to two things to that so one, when we get off this call, could you send Carlos an email and let him know my schedule is fairly open your schedule, and I have lived and spent quite a lot of time in South America so I'm ready to go to make another trip back but but Espanol almost when you only follow up or to get something. So ah, when I say mucho tiempo him in Brazil. Ah, so those wonderful place? Yes, it is. But Colombia is great, too. It's not not everything they showed. I mean, it's gotten better way past Narcos. So Oh, yeah, that was 2030 years ago. It's a much better thing. But this the second part is in is that kind of is a devil's advocate question. Because anybody that's listened to my show more than a few times has heard me say, you know, so it's about solving problems for the customer. And that's 90%. But I do agree with you that so many people get lost in that fee. And I found that, to be honest, uncomfortable a couple times when they kept asking me just to ask what the fee was that I wanted to present, or that I wanted to charge rather than wanting to really figure out what the problem was. So you know, you live near ish to Disney World. So Mirror mirror on the wall, Who is your favorite speaker of all time of all that you've seen?

Terry Brock 40:36

QI of all that I've seen, that's hard to say. It's like who your favorite while who's your virtual virtuoso, I don't know. There's so many that I've seen and had a chance to work with and learned Zig Ziglar stands out in my mind. He was a friend of mine. While I remember that speaker Hall of Fame, and one for Augmon Dino, I've got a chance to sit next to Augmon dino on the board at NSA and talk with him and what he's talking about. I like Tony Robbins got a chance to pick him up at the airport once and take him back, spend a couple of hours with him just holding

Kenneth Kinney 41:08

a small car.

Terry Brock 41:10

We had actually they had a limo, they ran the Olympic man, you know for him, and him but spend a couple hours with him in his hotel room talking about his presentation the next day crafting it molding and seeing how he was doing it in intimate detail. And then the next day to see how he took that and turned it around and presented and won the crowd over. And it was amazing. So I just haven't been lucky. And I'm really appreciative of the life that I've had. So I'm just getting started figuring out just I got a long way to go. And the people that I bumped into to see who they are what they're like intimately behind the scenes, just one on one, not only on the stage, excuse me, but how they really react and how they deal with life.

Kenneth Kinney 41:48

Yeah, Tony, Tony and Zig are the two that popped in my mind that I've seen that are just there's so many wonderful, brilliant speakers but there's a there's another level with with Where's Zig used to go just with his down homeless and then Tony is completely opposite. But he's like, you know, he got the video or the video on Netflix. I'm not your guru. But when you watch him, I'm thinking sure guru. So

Terry Brock 42:14

yeah, there's, I think a real key is that we've got to adapt to the society and the times that we have, because the style that we used was appropriate for his time just like a William Jennings Bryan, who would be an outstanding orator back in the late 1800s, early 1900s. Very oratorical and shouting and so would not make it today that would style wouldn't work. And one of my heroes in communication is Calvin Coolidge, the President 30th President of the United States, and he was up for election in 1924. He had been in office for one year because he took over when Warren G. Harding died, and he came in and 23. And then he was up, and he was running against people that were really bombastic and strong and the rhetorical and Cal was just a straight guy going Hi, I'm Calvin Coolidge. And what he did, is he did some we can learn from he took a medium of that day that was brand new technology, relatively new. And he was the first president in the United States to use radio. And radio was an intimate medium. He was able to go to the people directly, and say, Hi, this is your President Calvin Coolidge. And I wanted to talk with you today about that. People related to that. He was talking directly to them. And he won with, like 54% of the popular vote, and did very well the key for us is connect with people communicate, touch them listening to the problems that they have, and helping them if you can do that. It'll work with Calvin Coolidge. It'll work 200 years from now.

Kenneth Kinney 43:46

Great point. I always always remember the cassette tapes I had of Zig Ziglar Yeah. And I think of Tony Robbins is more of a CD speaker. You know, I don't know who the necessarily mp3 or Pandora speaker of our of the generation is. It's probably you. But Terry is gonna be the podcast, the mini podcast, and Roger wonderful to many sometimes. But Terry, I asked this of all my guests, you live in Florida, not that far from the water. But you're on A Shark’s Perspective. So I'll have to ask, what is your favorite kind of shark and why?

Terry Brock 44:19

Favorite kind of shark, the one that stays away from me would be my favorite. There. I have never dealt with sharks that much. But I think that they're fascinating creatures, you know, bottom, that's your life and what you have done and using the name shark, and I think it's wonderful. I think they're elegant creatures. They're wonderful. And they have done so much in that where they live in their kingdom. Yes, they we don't want to go up against them swimming. We don't do very well with that. And I think that what we want to do is instead what we want to do is learn from them. Learn from how they are and make sure that we also don't go on a rampage to try to kill all shots. Now. That's another thing we don't want to do. Yes, they have done some heroic Just things to people from time to time, but they also are legendary teachers on the planet. Yeah, it's yeah, it's very rare. Exactly. Don't

Kenneth Kinney 45:06

Don't splash your feet and don't walk into the water with Cheetos and barbecue sauce, you'll be fine.

Terry Brock 45:13

Yeah, exactly. Take care of yourself and do it the right way. But I think that what we can do is for me, I enjoy all living beings. And I think that living beings, animal humans, we deserve to extend respect and honor to everyone. And it's not some wishy washy, woowoo kind of thing. No, this is my life. I live by the principle of doing anything, you want to do anything. Use your imagination, as long as you take responsibility, and you do not initiate force against another human being, you're not going to shave force against someone else. You do what you want to do. And I think we'd all live our lives much better that way. If you kind of keep your hands to yourself and mind your own business.

Kenneth Kinney 45:51

Well, Terry, it's a special time my show. Are you ready for the five most interesting and important questions that you're gonna be asked today?

Terry Brock 45:57

Let's go for it.

Kenneth Kinney 45:58

Alright number one here.

Terry Brock 45:59

I don't know what these are. So it'll be kind of fun.

Kenneth Kinney 46:02

Ya know, we'll go for it. Number one, Disney World or Universal Studios,

Terry Brock 46:08

Universal Studios. I'm looking at it right now. I am looking right now as I speak, Harry Potter's world, I can see it wow. That it's pretty. That's only because it's there. And I love Disney World to it. But it's just there on the wrong

Kenneth Kinney 46:21

side of the house. Number two, social media marketing speaker or technology trends expert?

Terry Brock 46:28

I think both. It's not either or there it is a both. And because they blend together, you want to know how to use that technology like video and microphones. But social media gives you a chance to see that wonderful picture on Facebook, to connect with people and have a message to send that notice out on Twitter or to have LinkedIn so you can really do business. To me, it's not either or it is both and

Kenneth Kinney 46:49

Well, you've got both of them on your website. So number three, presenting on a stage to a large crowd of people who are clapping and applauding or virtually from a comfortable chair in your home.

Terry Brock 47:06

Like both, but I probably by a factor of maybe 51 to 49, or maybe 50.1%. The other would be virtually, I like it was I can reach more people, I can reach more people virtually whenever you go and speak or physically somewhere, you have a constrained number of people that can fit into that space, whatever it is, even if it's a large stadium, only so many people can be there. But when you deploy the use of video, when you're using that, now you can reach hundreds of millions, even billions of people done the right way. So I tend to lean toward the video plus, I can do it from right here. And while I'm in my home, I mean, we're getting relisted all the people in my office, right here, and I can reach a lot of people that way. And then when we finish, turned it off, and I can go into the kitchen, I can watch videos in the family room, be with my partner and talk to her and what she's doing, saying how was your day? What's going on? And so I tend to lean toward that. But I also love the physical meetings. That's my roots. That's my life. All right,

Kenneth Kinney 48:07

number four, a Blue Yeti that you use at home or a country man that you'd wear on stage?

Terry Brock 48:13

Country man on the stage obviously is the best on the stage. It's very good. But I do use your I'm going to show you we're getting really intimate here. I use a little microphone like this little lavalier mic that I can clip on. And I will use that sometimes I do too. Yeah. I have a desk that rises, you know, one of those desks that go up. So I can stand up and I did a series of programs a while back for the National Speakers Association. And I would stand up have that also I could move around you'll have more energy that way. So I tend to like this right here the Yeti How is my audio coming through right now? Perfect. Then that's why I like this microphone is still does a great job with it. And then this is good. Give me a little bit more mobility. It's not quite as good, but it's still acceptable.

Kenneth Kinney 48:56

Yeah, to the naked ear. It's, it's good. So number five, and the most important question that you're going to be asked today is biscuits or cornbread?

Terry Brock 49:04

Hmm, probably cornbread. Although I like biscuits to being a guy that leans toward vegan myself. I think the cornbread would be good. I just for me. I'm brace vegan. My partner Gina kind of encouraged me to do it and I'm feeling great. And when I go see my doctor, he goes, you got the blood of a 30 year old I wish I had your blood.

Terry Brock 49:23

So are they okay, for me? It's working. I just know that but the cornbread is really good. You got me hungry for some right now. It's nice to get some of that good vegan butter on there and things like that. I'd be real good.

Kenneth Kinney 49:34

Yeah, my cardiologist would probably tell me I have sausage gravy for blood, but I don't want to know that. So, Terry, where can people find out more about you follow what your thought leadership in this space, keep up with what you're doing here you speak and a lot more?

Terry Brock 49:48

Well, thank you for asking. And probably the best way to reach me to see all my social media contacts, phones and everything would be at my website and that's Terry brock.com That's spelled T-E-R-R-Y and Brock is spelled the right way B-R-O-C-K. So Terry brock.com. And you can get to all the information there. Come on over and let me know you heard me here on sharks podcast, and we'd love to help you out where I can.

Kenneth Kinney 50:13

Awesome. Terry, thank you so much again for being with us today on A Shark’s Perspective.

Terry Brock 50:17

Shark, wonderful to be with you, my friend. Awesome.

[music]

Kenneth Kinney 50:25

So that was my conversation with Terry Brock, a certified speaking professional and inductee into the speaker Hall of Fame, a recipient of the National Speakers Association's Cavett Award, a virtual presentation expert, an author, a syndicated columnist, social media marketing speaker and technology expert. Let's take a look at three key takeaways from my conversation with him.

Kenneth Kinney 50:44

First, Terry makes some really great points when looking at social and technology often say as well that we need to say physical distancing, instead of social distancing. But he goes on to say that we need to create more social connections, rather than social distancing. And we can do that virtually Well, if we do it right. And that's true, especially when you think of tools like zoom, you know, we've been able to connect via zoom and Skype and FaceTime via video connections for years and years now. But just take a look at how you're actually connecting with people, rather than the focus on just the technology. Are you communicating and connecting with people better than before, something to think about. And as he later said, I'll put my own words, it's a wonderful thing that we have Zoom. But also, this is an opportunity to take it up a notch with how we connect really with people with common values.

Kenneth Kinney 51:31

Second, lately, I've seen a lot of friends and peers shift and how they're now marketing themselves as keynote virtual speakers, which is really interesting. And looking at the rebrand is a sign of the times, I asked Terry about that differentiation, since he's done both, especially more virtual speaking than most people for many years. He says we need to focus on being great communicators who know how to use the wide variety of tools available, but the speeches need to be different. He doesn't think so. But he did remind us that a professional speaker has an interactive presentation. And that's something to really think about, especially when you're doing a lot of virtual summits. And there are ways to change your tonality and mannerisms and the way you move in a chair for a virtual presentation versus walking around on a stage. Listen, for ADHD folks like me, sitting in a chair is much different than walking all over a stage nonstop. So it's something I'm working on trying to do better myself. If it's done right, then there is a path for both kinds of speakings. However, just let me add that I will be so happy to get back to speaking events and seeing and meeting new people. No handshakes, oh, just virtual ones. And I might be wearing a hazmat suit at the time. But that's another story.

Kenneth Kinney 52:32

Third, you've heard me mentioned problem solving many, many times on the shows and I have such an appreciation for how Terry reminds us to focus on fixing problems if you're a speaker, or delivering some sort of presentation. Nothing wrong with asking that question and what can we do to solve that problem and get you a solution you want? It's a great way to help you learn to niche better as well. That way too. For some of us in the speaking business. We don't just have to quote a fee for a speech before at least exploring how to help someone figure out what the problem is that they have and what value you bring for helping them solve that problem.

Kenneth Kinney 53:04

Got a question? Send me an email to Kenneth at a shark's perspective.com. Thank you again for the privilege of your time. And you know what I'm really ready to do it's time to get back in the deep waters. There's a spot in the Caribbean waiting for me right now. So join us on the next episode of a shark's perspective.

(Music - shark theme)