****Please forgive any and all transcription errors as this was transcribed by Otter.ai.****

(Music - shark theme)

Kenneth Kinney 0:16

Hello and welcome back to A Shark's Perspective.

Kenneth Kinney 0:18

Today more than ever, businesses are producing content nonstop and so much of it, a lot of brands are creating more brand noise than the noise that surrounds them. And that's the goal right to rise above the fold of other noise. No What about the consumer and the content you should be creating to help establish trust with your customer? How do we create that level of trust in a world of noise, especially with content marketing.

Kenneth Kinney 0:40

Katie Martell is an on demand marketer and communication strategist, and a self proclaimed unapologetic marketing truth teller.

Kenneth Kinney 0:47

And on this episode, we'll discuss building trust with content, noise, content, shock, the ROI of content marketing, whether to outsource or INSOURCE your content efforts, knocking down silos, thought leadership, fast pitch softball, Ben Affleck and Batman, Monique and unique, and a lot lot more.

Kenneth Kinney 1:03

So let's tune into an unapologetic truth telling marketer with an unapologetic truth telling shark on this episode of A Shark's Perspective.

[intro music]

Kenneth Kinney 1:14

Katie, thank you so much for joining me today on A Shark's Perspective. If you would, please tell us a little bit about your background and your career today.

Katie Martell 1:22

Well, thanks so much for having me. My name is Katie Martell, I am in on demand marketer, which is a very sensitive thing. And I also get to speak around the world which is so amazing about this crazy world of marketing and another topic and emcee events as well. So I have a really cool job that is one of those heightened careers. But my background is in b2b marketing, predominantly marketing to marketers protect and services directed at the marketing audience. I've been in that for over a decade now. And very grateful for that. Because if you market to marketers, you've got to be on your game. Oh, yeah, marketers know all your, all your tricks, you've got to be good. So I hope much of what I've put out into the world of my career in house, at PR firms analyst firm. With my own tech company, I co founded a startup in 2014. I've hosted that body of work has all been in service of the industry, which has brought me to today, I'm also working on a documentary, again, under this purpose of moving the industry forward. And certainly in mixing, unapologetic marketing

Kenneth Kinney 2:30

teller, what the hell is that where to come from?

Katie Martell 2:34

I started to write about some issues that we're seeing in the world of marketing predominantly around how brands pander to social movements, like the environment, for example. And a good friend of mine shared the article and wrote, you've got to read this from unapologetic marketing truth teller came out, and I thought, you know, people say your brand is what people say about you, not what you say. It's that ethos and take that amazing phrase and try to live up to it and own it. And it hasn't steered me wrong. So far, I think we have to tell the truth to move our industries and ourselves forward.

Kenneth Kinney 3:09

Great. So let's dive into content marketing. And talk a little bit further about that. You know, first question, how do you make content stand out, be more unique than Monique? And, you know, I think we're just seeing so much content put out there, but not a lot of it, I think really is, you know, fixing a lot of the customer problems. And it just sort of looks, I don't know, like vanilla, like you could take the logo off of half of it. In it all looked the same? How do you make that content stand out today?

Katie Martell 3:42

You've had a really good problem which the content shock problem of more companies than ever, investing in content marketing to try to achieve growth goal, which is a great thing for buyers, if you can, companies are doing it right, you know, providing something valuable, something relevant. But the problem that's created is, is what's being published to your point is a lot of the same, a lot of noise, which we've heard a lot about, we've heard content shock and Mark Schaefer forever. We've heard about the rise of brands as publishers. But I think what we don't realize and to answer your question, I think we have to go to the heart of the problem. If brands are creating noise, to buyers and for the audience's that they're publishing to, what actually happens is, what we're doing is lowering the amount of trust that buyers have because noise think about when you are in like a really chaotic conversation, maybe with your partner or your spouse or whoever,

Kenneth Kinney 4:40

like earlier with

Katie Martell 4:42

yelling, yeah. We got them there. You're yelling at each other, you're getting heated. The last thing that you're doing when you're in this mode of loud chaos is the last thing you're doing is listening. The last thing you aren't trusting and if you're a marketer, you need to have not only attend Send, which we're all fighting for and paying for, but you need trust. And so we talked about, yeah, it's noisy out there. But what that does is create a lack of trust in the people that we're trying to sell to and get to leave us. Be loyal to us love our brand wants to choose a part ways that their money for us. And so if you look at that as the problem, how do we create that trust and noise, faster becomes more important than ever to think about things like content, your communication strategy, your brand, your thought leadership, as an avenue towards creating trust, not just breaking through, or adding to the knowledge,

Kenneth Kinney 5:38

you probably see a lot of this with the content you create. Now for brands, because I've worked with a lot of content creators at agencies, especially larger agencies, where it's Johnny or Susie, who's been brought to the table to write a content piece. They have very little background into your business, that you're running day to day. And they write together something that they think that is creating that trust, but it's not, it's pretty vanilla. And if you're a consumer, you're going to that site, it's not really making you become more engaged or trusting of that brand. So how do we convey trust in what it is that we're writing in our content, kind of dive a little bit deeper, if you will.

Katie Martell 6:21

And, again, thank you for letting me rant about this. This is the most important and I think the most misunderstood part of content marketing is that it's not enough to be valuable. To be honest, it's actually not enough to provide that education, where you have to be is incredibly relatable and relevant. Trust in general, and I mean, humans are predisposed to trust, we want to trust, that's our nature. So they think we can tap into as marketers that help us to earn trust. And the first thing is showing our intent as a brand, through our empathy, and other sounds like fluff. But it's true, you have to ask yourself in this content, for example, that you've just hired your agency that your your examples, right? Can buyers see themselves? In our content? Do we look and sound like them? One company that does really, really well is Stem Cell Technologies. Are you familiar with them? Stem Cell? Yeah, damn cell technology. They are global biotech firm. My sister actually works there. And she's in marketing ops and sales ops. And they support academic and industrial scientists. It's a no nonsense customer. They're inherently very skeptical about marketing, they miss anything. That even hints at marketing fluff. And so this company has engraved the ethos of the business and in their content marketing, that is scientists, helping scientists, right? Again, back to the point of can our buyers see themselves in our content? They embrace it, they have most of the company has a PhD. Many others in the business in marketing, sales and r&d, have advanced degrees so that when they're creating content, what it does is it shows the buyer and I'm gonna give you understand you, but we are you I mean, how many brands make that kind of commitment to your point, how many people just outsource content to an agency and say, make us trustworthy? Right, this is real commitment. And the way that they bring it to life is they send these like weekly science newsletters, they've got 20 of them, three going out every single week, online to the topic the scientists care about. They, they do all kinds of events, education in podcasting videos, you know, the set of posters, direct mail, all the typical content tactics, but it's driven by the team of scientists helping scientists. And so it's inherently trusted by the very skeptical buyers.

Kenneth Kinney 8:53

No, I could not agree more. And, you know, when you said something about podcasts, I'll just add that I publish podcasts a lot. But I don't publish as part of some strategy to necessarily be out one time a week or five times a week, I publish, when I've got good content that I know my audience will trust. I think too many people, especially the agencies that have conditioned a lot of these clients into doing this, they put out content on a regular schedule, just to put out content, not that something that would benefit me, the consumer that helps build in that trust. And I you know, if somebody published something once a month, rather than four times a month, but that once a month, delivers more value. I mean, I can use that in create for other content, shares on shows social and break it down to drive back to that one pillar page. I've still don't understand why so many people think that they need to put out content just to put out content because to your point, exactly, it's eroding trust, not bring people back in. How do you look at then how your role as because I mean, again, you're a consultant for Freelancer doing this or if you were an agency, how would somebody like that do better work with a PhD to provide the kind of trusted content that they can form. Because most of the time, the folks with PhDs, even at a stem cell company are not going to be the ones writing it.

Katie Martell 10:18

It's true. And I think that you know, it would be, it would be dishonest of me, as a consultant, as a guest on your podcast to say, you got to go hire a whole bunch of people in your customer base, you become your marketer. That's not realistic. But I do think it points to is the knee and stem cells a great example of just this is how one company has chosen to do it. So on one hand, the advice I'd give is, do what works for you, to your point, exactly, you don't have to publish every week, it's a your buyers aren't, they don't have that kind of appetite, or be you don't have the right resources to give it to them. But the other the other point is, you really, you really just need to get at the heart of what it is that your buyers are looking for from you. I know, this is like the most cliche advice that I'm sure 200 of the 200 Plus podcast guests that you've had given. But knowing your buyers is the biggest asset in marketing. Who else in the business that between a market and a company in the marketing department but in b2b Especially, we really, really suck at this, like, we know, we really do not, there's this stat, and I will quote them. I think it's serious decision. 60% of b2b companies admit out loud, but they do not understand their buyers 60% who are willing to raise their hand and shame itself. So I put the numbers closer to 80. To be honest, on the flip side, other studies have found that most b2b customers 70% Don't feel brands understand their business. I mean, these numbers are like embarrassing. And all of the fancy tech, all the, you know, acceleration, you can do automation, the scale the reach that you can have with with tech today. And in terms of amplifying your content, none of it matters unless you get this right. But this is one of those core skills that either haven't been taught to a marketing audience hasn't been taught to the content marketer, or it's just overlooked and it goes away. I don't know what it is, is it dying or is due does not have it?

Kenneth Kinney 12:19

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know that, either. You know, one thing I could not agree more with you when I look at this is that I would much rather have you help articulate that PhD story. But the just the same way that brands look at their customers, agencies and consultants need to understand their end customers of their customers, so that they can help articulate that story. And so I would much rather read an article from you rather than from a PhD, if we were using stem cells example. But at the same time, I think the approach that we just seen happen still too much is that too much of the marketing babble is flown in, and it doesn't do a very good job at telling the marketing story anyway. So anyway, that's my take. So how do you look at the ROI with content marketing, this is something that is really coming up a lot. I know, some friends in the space, who've lost their jobs that were content marketers, for different brands and different agencies. But this is always going to be an issue is trying to justify the value or the return on investment. But if you're explaining this, especially to a CFO, the value of content marketing, how do you sort of justify it?

Katie Martell 13:28

Yeah, and I'm gonna give you the answer that all consultants give, to start because it's like, disclaimers, it depends. They go, I said, the magic words and all ability as you take this advice. But what it depends on are two things, the state of your business, as well as the explicit goals that your, in this case, CFO have laid out, not only for marketing, but for the business itself. So I think that one size fits all marketing advice about content marketing, ROI, does worry about that, you can Google it, there are articles, you know, and they're all They're all relatively right. But again, I will always say this to anyone who listens to this podcast, me speak on stage, anything, take everything with a grain of salt, because it really does have to do with your capability on the team, with business goals and the stage the businesses that I work with a lot of startups, for example, and they are in various stages of growth, some are really early days and like the incubation stage where they're just trying to figure out you know, are we building the right thing that people will actually pay for others are in, you know, we've just gotten funding and we gotta, we gotta grow quickly, high growth mode. And some are even further past that into scale, where they're just trying to like find the most effective way of sending money to grow at incredible rate, repeatability, you know, so, you know, each one of those different clients and it has very different, you know, ROI metrics. The first thing I would do when we moved CFOs just like most CEOs, or heads of sales, had the product sales look at marketing differently than they look at each other. Yeah, think about it. So you and I, we consume marketing all day long. Like we see it. Every everywhere we go every channel, we log on to driving down the street with a billboard, unless you're in Brazil, you really do see marketing everywhere you go and every single person in our in our modern.

Katie Martell 15:26

Totally what it says though, is you don't do that with finance. You don't do the inner workings of r&d everywhere you go. So when it comes to other disciplines, like nowhere else, do people look at marketing and think you know what, I understand marketing, because I see it all day, I'm a consumer of it, I buy things, and therefore, I am a marketing expert. Because of that, you have to do a lot of expectation setting in marketing. I think a lot of people think it's either magic, or a complete waste the money and both are wrong. It's the right answer. In the interview question of how do you measure constant ROI? It's somewhere in the middle, you have to figure out what matters to the business. And you've got to figure out a really competent way of saying, I can help you get there. So for you know, the people listening here that are in that phase of okay, maybe you didn't need to be and you are you inherently know, because you've heard all the pundits tell you how wonderful content is, if you use it at a job, your job now is requiring you to explain what the hell am I spending all of this cash about, you're on relating to all these ebooks and webinars and field events and things that you want me to do to help educate the market. My advice to that crowd, that specific audience is try to figure out the language of the business that's going to make people go, Oh, yeah, that's valuable. So for example, content marketing and thought leadership in particular, are very effective at fixing the trust problem that I mentioned earlier. Right, because what you're doing is you're establishing an emotional connection with buyers, which increases trust. And that leads to the L word that every sales leader will love loyalty, every CEO loves because it means recurring revenue, loyalty. So you know, pivot your content ROI from traffic, engagement metrics to Hey, this is going to help us drive repeat business increase loyalty, you also might show them research that shows that you know, when you can exhibit more value to customers, and you can demonstrate that the quality of your thinking right is on the table, and you can actually make people pay premium. Right, you can now bring more value to customers, that also increases the lifetime value. So again, hook your wagon to that star of higher lifetime value higher loyalty. When you are recognized as an expert in market and a category in a business. It leads to sales metrics that matters, like, Hey, we are making more shortlist, we are in more inquiry more request for proposal because people know that we are the recognized expert in our state. That's a metric that can directly be attributed to content marketing, but that affects the sales process and pipeline, you can also tell them, hey, if we're going to convince buyers, that they are philosophically aligned with us, so that we can get them thinking about the world, the way that we see it, that can lead to a faster sales cycle, because guess what the sale criteria is now according to your worldview, so you're going to win more deals within a year to actually increase the sales cycle. So there's a lot of these metrics that you know, we from marketing take for granted. Differentiation. So what what that means for sales is if you've been differentiated brand and offer, that's a higher close rate, that's a higher price point that you can that you can expect. These things matter to the rest of the business, we in marketing, don't do a great job reaching across the aisle and really convincing them in their words, what we're doing for the business.

Kenneth Kinney 18:53

Yeah, I'll tell you what, to what little bit I can add to that is I wish that more marketers would push their leadership to push back somewhat on the CFO or not not pushed back to establish the guidelines ahead of time. I think sometimes that we go into this trying to figure out and justify it on the back end without knowing what our plan is ahead of time. And that's a much easier conversation with any C suite. If we know you know, what we're doing moving forward instead of looking back and trying to justify it. And I've just found that a lot with brands that I wish people would start to, to have that conversation a little more fully than they've done in the past. But anyway,

Katie Martell 19:34

expectations matter. If you have if you have clear expectations, like any of the job role, you start you're if you're if you're getting kind of keeping your job, you don't start a job without knowing exactly what that business expects of you exactly why and marketing is basically walk into a door and assume that we know what they want from us. They may want something very different. It's our job as marketers to deliver growth revenue pipeline. So we just got to find a way of getting there and continually selling what we're doing for the business to the business at all times. We have two jobs, business and selling ourselves.

Kenneth Kinney 20:08

Well, you've worked with a lot of startups, how does startups work differently with content? You know, a lot of people just think that's all they're going to put out, because they have no money to spend on paid media. But you know, what's the mentality that you've seen with your own marketing brain, as you've worked with those to where you're doing that more with larger brands today? I think it's

Katie Martell 20:28

a challenge, right? They have a larger than life goal ahead of them, they've got to convince people to trust a new aggregative to market. Nobody knows who you are. They've also got to convince people to trust them, but only pay attention to them, but trust them with money with their be with an incredibly important business procedure. But then you've got to do all that without much money, and without much time. So it's like this devil, you know, you and I were talking earlier about the the benefits of pressure and having a deadline, and it does make you more creative and miserable. But I do believe that startups are, are fun, because you do your best work under pressure, right. But what it means is, you know, there are two types of startups, one has a boatload of cash to go spend. And I will, I will tell you, like two or three brands right now that are great examples of this. The other type has no money, they're bootstrapping, or they've had a seed round, or there's just just enough runway to get through the next six months. So you have to separate content marketing to these two types of startups because they look very different. As a good example of companies that have a boatload of money upfront, and can spend that money creating air cover, through content marketing, they can build a category, they can establish themselves as thought leaders, they can publish ebooks blog, my favorite new being that they've got money for it, drift here in Boston, conversational marketing, they've created an entire category. From that they've built great social amplification, and all of their employees are very active and sharing a ton of well done. I love the content that Jeff is putting out. While they're doing that because of the success that their founders had from previous exits. They have more tolerance for risk, they have more money to spend on marketing. So they can they can afford to build a category through content. HubSpot did the same thing. They spent a lot of time resources on building category, even before the product itself kind of caught up to that vision. And it eventually did. And they were very successful because of that one of our, again, another hometown, Boston brand that has really put us in serious contention for, you know, hub in the city for tech. The problem is, a lot of startups look at a drift, or a HubSpot, and they think that's content marketing for startups. It's not unless you have money to spend on it. So most companies have to be really, really creative and resourceful with what they do. And this is where it comes in. We really have to be willing to poke at what's wrong with the way things are done today. Some of the best content marketing is startups in the early days, if you have no money to spend, are the riskiest move, because we cannot afford to play it safe. When you have no time and money to do it. You've got to be clear about what I call exceptional truth. These are, these are facts about the industry in which you work that might be hard to swallow, but we'll help you kind of break through the noise just because you're the only one willing to say what everyone else is thinking. A good example of this is Linus Torvalds, the creator of Linux, you know, back in the day. I remember back in 2001. You know, Steve Ballmer, who was the CEO of Microsoft at the time, at the time said, Linux is a cancer, right? Everyone was like, What is this guy talking about? Linus had a very clear point of view in the world. And he made it very well known. He would say software is like sex. It's better when it's free. And he of course, started this open source movement and all the ethos of Linux we all take for granted today. And even Microsoft now under the leadership of sassy and Adela 15 years later, after Steve Ballmer said is the cancer and fully great Linux. Microsoft loves Linux, right? So there's this, there's power in having a controversial point of view as a startup. And then being consistent with that over time, Linux a great example of what can take hold, you've got to be willing to just speak to what's wrong with the way things are done today. And why does it matter for buyers? Another good example is VMware, Diane Greene. Right? She was as simple as saying, As the founder and CEO saying, look, there's got to be a better way of utilizing CPU. There's got to be a better way to make use of the capacity at hand for our business. We started the whole cloud computing movement with virtualization, right? Because she was willing to say, there has to be a better way. That's it. Because she said that even the early days in the business, people perked up, paid attention and said, Alright, I want I need a better way you convinced me this problem? What can you do to fix it? That's sort of startup needs. That's what a startup at a cash strapped company. That's what they should be thinking about when they're planning content?

Kenneth Kinney 25:27

Sure. Well, kind of diving back into an earlier subject, we were talking about the content creators themselves. And I know this is going to come somewhat with some bias because you are an outsource creator. But why should someone outsource content? That's another argument that a lot of brands are going through today as what should they pull back in house?

Katie Martell 25:47

It's a great question. I do think that many brands are asking, do the right content in house, or do we outsource it to someone else, there are risks and benefits to both. I think when a brand is deciding to outsource, it's because they don't have the resources internally, to keep up with the demand. That's typically when someone like myself is brought in to say, either help us write or help us find somebody to write. Because we just we are still seeing neat stuff. We have all these great no byline opportunities, we have a bustling pipeline, great marketing automation system, we need to feed the beast. So demand is typically what drives the decision to outsource where companies fall flat is they they will then outsource loads better. Rather than look for quality. I would rather you spend more money per word with the right writer or the right consultants and get less output because it's going to be at higher value than I would getting you know more like you know more blog posts at a cheaper cost the word you're gonna get what you pay for when it comes to outsourcing. Can I do a plug is that fair? Can I do a plug for a start? Is that a great resource for finding subject matter expert writers, for b2b They're called they're called N dash n d a sh. Darko, they're based in Boston. And I used to run a group here in town called Boston with the largest we still are, they are the largest content professional development group in New England. And they've actually inspired offshoots in Austin, Texas and other parts of the country. It's it's a great, it was a great movement. And N dash was i That's how I got introduced these guys. And what they're building is a platform that can go on and basically, search by topic. Hey, you know it, security is a big hot topic among endpoint security. I need somebody who gets that space. Again, just to get back to that stem cell research. People that understand that can show the buyers, they understand that world, I need someone to write XYZ about that. And so you can find them on this platform, you just pay them per piece. And it's a really fantastic way of getting beyond your four walls of business. But make sure that you're looking for people that have not only domain expertise, but that's important to you. They don't maybe you hire someone like a former journalist. That's okay. Just make sure they can ask your subject matter expertise. The right question, that's the key, you either hire an expert to read, he's got great writing job, or you hire someone like a journalistic mind that can ask the right questions to get the real story.

Kenneth Kinney 28:23

Agreed. So what are some of the best ways not to silo your content marketing efforts, because if you are outsourced, or you're on a lot of different teams, I'm very much a big proponent of keeping messaging together and aligned not a bunch of mixed messaging across 50 different channels delineated across 50 different teams for any decently large size brand, which is what we tend to do.

Katie Martell 28:50

We do, it's really, really easy to silo, especially in marketing with all the different tactics and all the different teams. I think, for me, the biggest area of siloed work in companies is actually with PR and content marketing, which sounds kind of surprising people don't realize that in most bigger firms precede b2b, or more traditional teams, departments that were built out years ago and haven't really evolved. The PR team responsible for things like thought leadership and influence or media relations, awards or speaking events. Sometimes social media are sometimes completely separated from the content marketing team, which is usually dangerous, because really, they have the same goal. Both have the same goals and elevating the right storyline, defining category, you know, creating priority for a brand in market creating demand, building air cover for sales or getting you know, funding and increasing credibility and these are all so you could say that that was a list of goals for the PR team or a content marketing department. Typically, though, where the biggest gap is, is when the demand gen team I own con I'm in the PR team, the comms team is different building in different headquarters. It's kind of like a centralized marketing team or headquartered corporate marketing. I my biggest recommendation for content pros and companies that are embracing both great modern PR and great content, break down that wall, bringing those two teams together, allow what you're doing in content to be amplified. But what you're doing in PR, when they work together, you have much more consistency of message, you have much more alignment internally, which brings more efficiency. And you've got this very bold, very clear vision where the two teams can work together and therefore be be more effective as a whole. Yeah, so if I think about it as being the same message on every channel, from one brand, that is a pipe dream for most distributed teams, but that is the reality of what our attention shot buyers need. They need consistency from you. So you gotta build that consistency internally. Very good.

Kenneth Kinney 31:01

Katie. This is one of my most important content questions. I ask everybody who's been on the sharks perspective. What is your favorite kind of shark and why?

Katie Martell 31:14

I'll be honest, I don't know anything about sharks. But in preparation for this podcast, I Googled shark stack and I just give

Kenneth Kinney 31:21

you I would love for it. Love for you to i

Katie Martell 31:25

I was shocked to find out that you are more likely to get hit by lightning. And to be killed in a shark attack.

Kenneth Kinney 31:31

You're more likely to get hit by a coconut from a palm tree than then killed by a shark.

Katie Martell 31:40

I had no idea. I feel safer now.

Kenneth Kinney 31:43

Yeah, apparently there's a lot of mean palm trees out there and lightning bolts I get but but yeah, so anyway, Katie, are you ready for the five most interesting and important questions that you're going to be asked today? I hope that let's do it. All right. Number one. Ben Affleck or Matt Damon, we get asked a local Boston question.

Katie Martell 32:06

Oh, God, I have to choose. Not nuts accent isn't as offensive. We'll go with Matt.

Kenneth Kinney 32:13

Okay. Yeah, he didn't screw up that man. So he's he's obviously the right answer. Alright, number two, the Boston Red Sox or your Fastpitch softball league discounts?

Katie Martell 32:29

Oh, I have to go with the Girl Scouts. At least we have a coach right now.

Kenneth Kinney 32:32

Yeah. Yeah, no, no scandals.

Katie Martell 32:37

Scandals we drink. We drink a lot of beer during games. And it was a great time.

Kenneth Kinney 32:42

Are you stealing a lot of signals using video equipment?

Katie Martell 32:45

We just need to try to peek over the bench. Yeah.

Kenneth Kinney 32:49

Extra beer. Alright. Number three. JLo or Shakira? So good. Oh, horrible. halftime?

Katie Martell 32:58

Did you see that tongue move from Shakira that went viral last night? Yes, I did. It actually. Okay. It actually was a, it was some kind of a celebratory mood, and I'm gonna butcher the name of it. But if you Google it, it was it actually is it's from her Lebanese roots. So that little bit like honey, like in the camera. She does it a lot when she performed. It was completely viral. But now everyone's talking about like Lebanese culture, because everyone's like, what was that? So she totally went for the environment moment of the whole favorable environment. That was wonderful.

Kenneth Kinney 33:34

Well, and so when I've seen her do that move before into there's not a wrong answer. I love them both equally. So. But that stuff at several show was fantastic. And I did not know it was going to be that good. I'm a little disturbed about pit bulls new beard. But, though on the pregame stuff, but JLo and Shakira were amazing. So number

Katie Martell 33:56

and one more thing I'll say about that is I really loved that they called out Puerto Rico in there. You know, I thought that was so important. There's so much happening. I was just in Puerto Rico with my wife in December. We have an amazing time. And the day that we left with the day that they had gut wrenching the horrific earthquake. They're already dealing with so much. So I do think Puerto Rico needs a little bit more support. And to remember that they are our American brothers and sisters. They are patriots so good for JLo and Shakira for having a statement during the show.

Kenneth Kinney 34:30

Agreed. All right, number four. Tom Brady, or Bill Belichick. That's a hard one. Yeah, they're both gods in Boston. So

Katie Martell 34:41

They really are. I will have to say I'm I'm a younger Patriots fan. For me. I grew up watching Tom Brady, so I'm sorry to say it I know it's gonna get a lot of booze. Somebody probably just unsubscribed from a newsletter after hearing this. You know, everyone hates Tom Brady. But yeah, he honestly put us in that in In my lifetime of Washington patriots, my father really would probably say,

Kenneth Kinney 35:03

Yeah, I'm a Cowboys fan, but he's got six rings. So what are you going to argue about? So number eight is going to hate. Exactly. Number five. And the most important question that you're going to be asked today is biscuits or cornbread,

Katie Martell 35:17

Cornbread all day, all day.

Kenneth Kinney 35:20

Well, Katie, where do people find out more about you? So you're speaking engagements, grab the newsletter, and more?

Katie Martell 35:26

I will shamelessly plug my new documentary that I'm working on called pandemonium, which explores the intersection of social movements, and our weird modern world of marketing. So I'm working on that now actively. Please find out more at KT dash martell.com where you can sign up for a, what I call the world's best newsletter. And I really, really would love if you were part of this journey with me on this documentary. So thank you in advance everyone who comes over and subscribe. Hey, thank you so much.

Kenneth Kinney 35:54

You're more than welcome, Katie, thank you so much for being with us today on A Shark's Perspective.

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Kenneth Kinney 36:05

So there was my conversation with Katie Martell and on demand marketer and communication strategist, and a self proclaimed unapologetic marketing truth teller. Let's take a look at three key takeaways from a conversation with her.

Kenneth Kinney 36:16

First, I thoroughly enjoyed my conversation with today's guests talking about content marketing, she and I ran on some similar topics. And you know, even I, on occasion, wonder if what I've seen in my own career is just siloed in my experience, but I hear a lot of the same all the time from marketers all over the world, and absolutely love her comment. And it's a question that all content creators should ask. And that is, how do we create trust in a world of noise? There is so much to unpack for that. As she said, it's not enough to be valuable. She brings up whether buyers can see themselves in our content, and how often are you putting out your content on an artificial calendar that you've created or on a schedule when you know that there's an actual appetite for them to consume. And knowing your buyer, that being the biggest asset you have as a brand. Yet most brands, especially b2b, don't know that customer? Well, that is so very, very true. And I often see it in my own practice as well, really lover commentary here again, as we uncover some uncomfortable truths.

Kenneth Kinney 37:09

Second, you hear me talk a lot on this show about attribution and measurement. In content marketers constantly struggle with this. Rarely do they properly plan out their KPIs. With an emphasis on the word properly, leaving it to chance for lack of a better phrase shouldn't be an option, especially as you engage leadership for input on their expectations. This isn't rocket surgery, but it's often uncomfortable conversations, helping those other departments to understand what to expect, have a deeper discussion with your leadership, and then help lead them away from vanity metrics, instead of those that focus more on the customer and the content they consume. And as she said, the one size fits all approach does it work, so please don't groupthink your metrics. It's what matters to your business and your consumer, measure what helps your consumer get from here to there.

Kenneth Kinney 37:54

Third, every time I think that I'm complaining too much about silos based on my own experience, then another expert like Katie comes in and tells me the reality is that she's seeing the same thing every day. Knock down every silo you can, whether it's internal or external. Your customer doesn't care about the sausage making process behind the walls of your company. You'll make better content for the consumer without silos.

Kenneth Kinney 38:15

Got a question? Send me an email to Kenneth at a sharks perspective.com.

Kenneth Kinney 38:20

Thank you again for the privilege of your time.

Kenneth Kinney 38:22

Be fearless in your content creation, be a shark, and join us on the next episode of A Shark's Perspective.

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