Transcription
****Please forgive any and all transcription errors as this was transcribed by Otter.ai.****

[intro music]
Shark 0:16
Welcome back and thank you for joining A Shark's Perspective. I am Kenneth "Shark" Kinney, your host and Chief Shark Officer.

Shark 0:22
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Shark 0:49
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Shark 1:12
And now back to the show.

Shark 1:14
What is the truth in the power of your messaging and your story? Are you telling in a way that your audience understands and will enact change? Can you succinctly tell someone, what's your big ideas? Or is it a tangled mess of too many messages? So how do we go about finding our red thread to make your big ideas irresistible?

Shark 1:33
Very happy to welcome back Tamsin Webster who's making her third appearance on the show. Tamsen Webster is a keynote speaker apart messaging strategist full time idea was spurred on that big idea, a subject matter expert in marketing and storytelling, and now the author of find your red thread make your big ideas irresistible.

Shark 1:50
And on this episode we'll discuss breaking down the power of truth and messaging, adding Norris's context components and combinations. untangling your red thread of multiple ideas. The way you talk about your big idea to your audience, goal setting and tempting as st how to measure it all duck bunnies Agatha Christie novels, James Bond, where she shops for Von Furstenberg dresses, imaginary mills and alternative flowers, and a lot, lot more.

Shark 2:13
So let's tune into a red threader with a shark whose message is always clear on this episode of A Shark's Perspective.

Shark 2:26
Tamsen, welcome back. And thank you for joining us yet again on A Shark's Perspective. Welcome to the three peat club.

Tamsen Webster 2:33
Oh my gosh, is there like jacket, a blazer?

Shark 2:36
We're working on? It's a virtual jacket right now. But last time I saw you we were both speaking at a conference at the Boston Western waterfront. That's No, I saw you in Vegas. But the last? Yeah, the last time we recorded a podcast was at the Boston West and

Tamsen Webster 2:50
waterfront. It's right to yours in person. Yeah, I remember those days.

Shark 2:55
Yeah. Well, so glad to have you back. Very excited about your first book, find your red thread, make your big ideas irresistible. Who's the books audience? Is it for people like me or people like you. And that's a trick question showing a little play on words that actually read the whole book, including the first part where you talk about who this is for.

Tamsen Webster 3:14
This is for I generally said it's for experts, it's for anyone who has a big idea and sees the power in it, but really struggles to get other people to see that same power. And that covers a lot of us. But it's a particular mindset of somebody who knows they've got this big idea. They know it can potentially change the world, even if that world is just one person's world. And they struggle to get that idea out of their head and into the minds of others.

Shark 3:42
I know you're working more with individuals now help coaching them through this big idea. But this has been something you've done throughout your career, I'm sure to help develop that through why the transition from an office necessarily transition but you're you've moved a little more away from Corporation in corporate marketing speak, haven't you towards more on the individual side?

Tamsen Webster 4:04
Well, it's a yes and no, I mean, I would say that from you know, big companies with, you know, expansive marketing departments. Yeah, mostly just because they don't find them as fun. i The vast majority of my revenue actually still does come from companies, but in the form of startups and, and, and if I work with a larger company, it tends to be a technical organization that really struggles with with how to, excuse me, it tends to be an organization that really struggles with how to talk about what they do, or they have a commoditized product. But the reason why I love startups or businesses that are still in that kind of startup mode is that because typically I'm still working with the founder, and therefore I'm still working with the expert. I'm still working with the person whose idea this is and so those are just my people. i That's I love the people who come With the ideas, those are the folks that I want to work with. And so I've just oriented my business so that I can work either directly with those people one on one because they're individual experts or thought leaders. Or as I said more commonly, I'm working with founders and their teams on how often to get their their ideas and their startups from one stage to another.

Shark 5:22
Well, one of the reasons I've always loved your message from the first time I saw you speak years ago is because I find that so many corporations, their red thread tends to be a tangled mess of knots.

Tamsen Webster 5:34
So they don't even look for it. Yeah, exactly.

Shark 5:37
Well, why this book now?

Tamsen Webster 5:40
This book now? Because it was driving me nuts that it was sitting on my to do list. Fair. I know, that doesn't answer the question like the publishers are, like want from from the book. But I think that in a lot of ways, it's the product of, in some ways, what you just said, I mean, I think we talk about companies, and there's and there's been so much emphasis on brand, and brand messaging. But my experience having spent 25 years doing brand messaging in and for large organizations and small is that we don't really understand actually where the actual brand comes from. And so between seeing wonderful experts, academics thought leaders found or struggle with their ideas, and this enduring frustration with the sort of the the brand industrial complex, which I think is still a lot of ways a bunch of horse crap. I was like, there's there, there is something else here, there's, there's something else that we need to get to, we really need to get to a much better understanding of why we do what we do, the way that we do it and a much better way of articulating that for other people. So that for big companies that have these kind of tangled messages, that they have a more efficient and more effective way to get them all straightened out. And so And for these people with these big ideas, that they don't, a though they don't have to spend so much time like lost in the wilderness with their idea. And be and most importantly, that those big ideas don't get don't die on the vine simply because they didn't have the right words to articulate them.

Shark 7:27
So let's dive in a little bit to the book, I love the breakout and always sort of look at the thematic structure of books, but even label it out sort of the context, the components and the combinations, when you sort of think of the framework of the red thread and how somebody should tackle this because not everybody unfortunately, is not going to read the book, but they should, they should also go back and listen to episode 52 and 169. So you can get some more context around it. But when you think about context, components and combinations, what does that mean to you as far as how a person or a business processes the red thread?

Tamsen Webster 8:01
Well, the first piece context is making sure you understand what you're doing this for why and for whom I don't think you can come up with a message without understanding who your audience is what you're talking about what you want to have happen as a result, and where you're going to use it. Without that, that started like you're just trying to craft a message that works everywhere for everybody and everything. And anybody who spent any time in marketing or sales messaging knows that you cannot do that, when we try all the time. To think that there's like one message that will rule them all, or in sales, if there's one deck that will rule them all. And it just doesn't work that way. Because you do not have a monolithic group of customers, your company, your business, even your idea is not monolithic, and so just doesn't work. And when you think of as I do a message as the way you talk about your idea, by which I mean your product, or service, or business or whatever. But if a message is the way you talk about your idea to a particular audience to achieve a particular outcome, you have to know that like you have to know the context before you get started. So it's that context helps you ground yourself, and why are we doing this in the first place? And what do we want to get out of it? The components are okay, what needs to be in this message in order for it to be successful? And then the combinations are now that we know what the elements are? How do we combine them so that they do what we need to do to accomplish the goals that we set in the context phage. So it all works together. But it's, it's also a process that I found is through a lot of trial and error and the work of my clients. That's the best way to step somebody through. You can try to start at the end, I just let you know with a one sentence summary of your idea. I just find that if we if people could do that, well then I wouldn't have needed to write the book. So there you go. Well, let's

Shark 9:59
talk about Chapter Three, an open door may tempt to St. Which was not, not a chapter about the Archbishop of Boston but instead about goal setting. No, no. But when applying the red thread, how should someone be looking at setting a goal for applying this?

Tamsen Webster 10:16
So the goal is, and this is really important, the goal is not you the message makers goal, this is the audience's goal. And the reason why I call it the goal is because it is the it is it helps to separate, you know, the, I wanted to try to avoid the trap of saying, Okay, well, there's the problem that the audience knows about. And then there's the real problem that you know, about, both are necessary and a message. But to be able to differentiate those first of all, I wanted to call them two different things. So this goal is the problem oftentimes that your audience already knows about. And the reason why I paired it with that proverb of an open door, Tim will attempt to say, is that well chosen a goal should be a question that your audience is currently asking, but for which they do not yet have a good answer. And that means if you can anchor your message, your idea in that kind of question, and something that they are looking for actively right now looking for an answer for, they are going to be naturally curious about what you're going to say, because it's already relevant. You don't have to convince them that it's relevant, you're starting at a point of relevance.

Shark 11:28
So love the quote, when you know what someone wants, you know, where the story starts, and I felt that was a brilliant play into that. So chapter five, you only lean against something strong unpack, if you will, what you mean by that, by the truth statement, and how we should apply that.

Tamsen Webster 11:43
So the true statement is, I have to tell you, as much as I am hugely a fan of the duck bunny, which is the previous chapter, where I talk about the real problem in the terms of a two part problem. The truth is, in my mind, the both the innovation in this book and the power of it, because it is the truth that I think most messages miss, it's what's missing from most messages. And it comes down to So what is the truth, the truth is a belief that your audience already has. So it's something that they know or believe or would agree is true, generally outside of the context of your idea. But because they believe it's true outside of the context of their idea, they kind of have to believe it's also true of your idea, right? Like that's, that's the function that it plays. And the reason why that's so important is, if they agree that this kind of piece of your idea is true elsewhere, then well constructed, it should tip them over and go, Well, of course, my idea makes sense. But the real function of it is why it's so important. And for that we have to pull back and go to story structure, which is where what all of this is really based on. So with, with most messaging, if it's done well, we know we need to include both a problem and solution. I mean, there are still plenty of people out there who were just like, here's our solution, and then don't actually attach it to a problem. You know, if you've evolved a little bit, then you know, you need to do a problem in solution. But having only a problem in solution would be kind of like only having the first and last last chapters of a book. Right? There's no story there. And the reason why that's a problem is for your message is that story is the logic of the mind. It's how we explain the connection between beginning and end between the first chapter and the last chapter between this goal that the audience has this question they're asking, and the answer, excuse me in the answer that your audience provides, the answer that your idea provides. And in a story, the thing that that really flips it over to like what makes the end the end is a point in a story that's called a moment of truth. And as I mentioned in the book, there's a there's a fancy Greek word for this that I absolutely adore. And it's the Anneke Norris's, same thing, it's all it all talks about the same thing, but it's, it's that describes the moment in a story where the main character realizes the true nature of their circumstances. And because of that, because they're like, because this is the way the world works, or because this is the true nature of that person, or the true nature of me or whatever, they have to make a choice. They have to make a choice about whether or not they deny the reality that they've just been reminded of, which is unlikely, by the way, or they have to give up what they want, which sometimes happens in the story, but really doesn't happen in real life. Or they have to do something different than they've been doing so far. And so if we think back to what a message is supposed to do for an audience is At the same thing, Aren't we trying to get the same thing to happen where we want someone, you know, our idea will give them what they want. So they're probably not going to give up on that. We do need them to do something different, right? So in order to do that we can borrow that same, you know, that same phenomenon from stories and say, Okay, well, if we can get them to realize the true nature of their circumstances, if we could get them to agree that this thing is true, well, then that's going to create this tension, because in order to get what they want, they either have to deny this thing that they've just agreed is true. Or they have to look at things differently. And that's the shift that allows the transformation and the shift to your idea to happen.

Shark 15:47
So this is part of the book, in part of outside the book, that I'm going to lean into this question. You talk a little bit later about enacting change. So you've helped somebody come to the realization of what that message is set some goals, lean against something strong, but there's still a resistance for a lot of people to then at that point, enact change, how do you help them get to that mindset to where they're ready to make transformation?

Tamsen Webster 16:12
Well, that's a, it's a big theme in the book that you can't make them do that you can only create the conditions for that. And some of the things that we've already talked about are really along those lines. So if you can anchor a change in thinking or behavior in something that somebody already wants, but doesn't yet have, if you can anchor it in what they believe to be true about themselves or the world. And you can validate what they've been doing so far. So they don't feel stupid about it, or whatever. And so that you can validate that they these are smart, capable good people, then you've really set it up in such a way that it's much more likely that that change can happen, you really increase the probability of success. And essentially, what you're doing is you're getting people to agree with the components. There's a reason why it was called that the components of your idea, so that they will agree with the concept of your idea, right? Because it's kind of hard to say, Well, I agree with A, B and C, that equal D, but I don't, I don't agree with D. So that's what the red thread is meant to do is really get them to a point where you're, you're breaking down your idea into the smaller components that are easier for someone to say yes to. And even then, right, there's one other thing that you have to do. So they can agree with your idea in concept. But they have to actually be confident that they can do it. And in order to be confident they can do it. That's where you need to provide what I call the actions in the book. But they aren't necessarily always actual actions, but they are the things that make that conceptual idea concrete for them. So sometimes that is like a series of steps they need to take. Sometimes it's something as simple of understanding what the what it looks like when they're successful, like what what are the qualities that define this successful thing. But that's really important, because it allows them to have not only the belief that this idea that you have is going to give them what they want, but that it's actually possible for them to get that result. And if you've given them enough detail, then they can decide for themselves whether or not that effort, whether or not that shift that you're asking to make is worth it for them. Whether or not that kind of trade off between the effort and the end, the end payoff are actually going to be worth it.

Shark 18:24
When you're working either with people or with these leaders at organizations, do you find more often that they either aren't sure what their message is? Or they're super sure. And they're completely wrong? You know, because there's a blend of ego versus bad messaging. And that can create a pretty gray area for a lot of people that live in we see it all the time in marketing.

Tamsen Webster 18:46
Yeah, I it there are there are probably as many ways that messages go wrong, as there are people who deliver them. And I would say of the two options that you gave, it's probably pretty equally split. I mean, I think it's less that it's less I think that people will No, no, I'm gonna retract that. It's not ever that people don't know what their message is, is that more often they're trying to put like 17 of them out. And they're not related to each other in a way that makes that makes sense, either to them or to the world at large. And I think that's that's a big issue. I think the shade of kind of the nuance that I put on the other option was I was just completely convinced that this is the message and it's and it's wrong, is that generally what that actually how that actually shows up is that the message is completely articulated from the point of view of the company or of the person with the idea, rather than in the context of language of the people that they're most trying to reach. And you see this a lot in I think brand messaging like that brand messaging. It's why I don't actually do brand messaging anymore. Because it's it is aspirational. to a fault. And I mean that meaning that a lot of times, people aren't naming their brands with a brand statement or a brand positioning. They're naming what they wish it were. And so it ends up being much more like a audience vision statement than an actual brand. But I think most of us who've done any work in marketing for any length of time would agree is that the brand is not what you say it is. It's, it's people sum total of their experiences from you, which is part of why I wanted to get to a way to articulate that in the first place, well, what actually drives the behavior of the organization, because it's that that gives rise to the brand. So if you can articulate that, well, then not only do you have a much more powerful hold on what your brand actually is, and where it comes from, you have a diagnosis, you know, diagnostic tool to say, okay, whoa, this is where things are going wrong. But third, you've, you've got an extraordinarily powerful built in differentiating way to talk about and understand what your audience is looking for.

Shark 21:08
How should someone go about measuring this, when you clear something up? That is clearly to me often ambass, especially with brand messaging, there should be a way to show that this to quantify this. Yeah. And I think it's important, not the same way you necessarily need to measure ad performance or something like that from a sales number. But there is a real, tangible and tactical thought to this as well. So what's your guidance on how how somebody should measure applying something like a red thread? Well, it's obvious it's even say it out loud. Clarify your message. Yeah. But

Tamsen Webster 21:40
it's, it's built into the steps, right? So it's, it's one of the things that i It's the reason why I have people articulate the outcomes in the context part of it as one of the earliest steps in this. Because when you're developing a message, my recommendation or to get enough clarity about that message to understand what it actually needs to be and do. You you, I always work with my clients, and we develop the red thread, but we also work together deliver to develop a deliverable for meaning so that we can, they can actually get practice putting that red thread to work, and they can see whether or not it's actually going to function well for them. So when we choose that deliverable, what I call the application, we also choose what the outcome is. So if we're doing let's say, an outline for a conversation, a sales conversation, then we're defining well, how will we know this particular conversation has been successful. So because they'll agree to a follow on call, because you know, or if it's a landing page, then they will download this thing, or if, if it's, you know, if it's a one sheet or for a speaker, for instance, then it'll you know, they they will see an increase like somebody will, the result will be somebody says, I want to follow on call, I want to learn more about you. Same book description, you you, you get an agent that gets interested. So we I bake into that because again, spent so many years in marketing and sales messaging, everyone's like, how do you make a measurable and I My goal is Big Dan, right? Like you should, you should know what that particular message is designed to do. And yeah, to your point, notice that I'm not saying that it should raise your sales by 100%. But like, you should know whether or not the message works. And you'll know because you've attached an action to it. If the if the message achieves the action at some acceptable level for you, well, then it's working. And then there's going to be longer term effects for that. But that's, you know, that's, that's, to me, that takes it beyond the scope of what I'm talking about here. But in order to get those larger actions, they all start with small ones. And so that's where I build in that measurability.

Shark 23:41
Well, it's just funny, it makes perfect sense. Because if you think of just a person, how do you find your red thread and make your big idea irresistible? Well, the obvious way for a lot of people is now they know what their ideas you help them get to what good ideas, it should be able to tell somebody that how did you measure the points? Well, now I actually know what my idea is. Well, I mean, it's just there's so many

Tamsen Webster 24:02
Well, can you summarize it in a sentence? Yeah, that's, that's really the the tactical promise of the book is that by the end of the book, you should be able to summarize your idea in a sentence which most people struggle with, and you should be able to summarize your idea in a sentence that actually invites further conversation so it's the measurability is, is built into it. So if you if you give the what I call that through line where you're offering in a short sentence, something people want via a means they don't expect and someone is open to learning more well, then you know that that's been that's been successful. And then if you can share your case for that idea, so you're going to a through line by itself is not enough to really convince someone to sign up but ideally, the storyline is, is at least again, another point of invitation to learn more. So it's it's it's a it was a huge nod to Seth Godin where he talked about your permission In marketing, to me, this is like permission messaging. It's basically at a really tactical, almost one to one level, orchestrating a conversation or a piece of content in a way where someone is choosing on their own to dive further into it. It's it's constructed in a lot of ways the way, way journalistic articles are constructed, where you start with a headline, and you add detail as you go in. But if you stop at any point, you've still gotten the full story you've just gotten at a different level. And that's really important to me.

Shark 25:32
Yeah. And I think as well, especially if you're any kind of business and you have people that work for you, having that message be able to be articulated well by your own employees as well. I mean, that that's worth its weight and gold as well. So anyway, we're gonna transition now, I've asked you before, what your favorite shark was, we don't have to do that. But it's now important again, for the third time to ask.

Tamsen Webster 25:53
I believe it was the Megaladon right?

Shark 25:55
It was the Megaladon because I talked about Jason Statham. So yeah, which I think it just come out of the time we were there last show. So it's, it's time to ask you those five most interesting and important questions of The Day. Are you ready?

Tamsen Webster 26:08
I hope so.

Shark 26:09
Alright, well, you've been warned before, so it still carries over. All right. You worked at Weight Watchers for a while. Let's talk about Weight Watchers spokespeople that have influenced you over your career. Oprah Winfrey or Charles Barkley?

Tamsen Webster 26:23
Oh, definitely. Oprah but this is before she was she was actually the spokesperson and I met Charles Barkley he he actually was staying at a hotel where around the corner that's when it was our one of one of our favorite watering holes. And we were just like having a drink one night in walks Charles Barkley that has nothing to do with my weight watchers life though. But the the the spokesperson that really actually got me into Weight Watchers, literally. Just on Oprah Show. No watch for the Duchess of York. Yeah, so I forget the actual year of it. But there was like I I went back and looked at the define the original air date, but it was like January, something of like 1998 like Fergie was on. Oprah and she was, you know, she was shilling for weightwatchers. And it was a hysterical episode. I mean, they were drinking wine. They are attempting these two women who clearly don't ever cook for themselves, or it's like chocolate chip scones. And it was hysterical. And I was like, well, any weight loss program on which I can have chocolate chip scones and drink wine is something I want to check out. So absolutely, positively Fergie plus Oprah.

Shark 27:39
So there's other podcasts of our friends that we know. And I listened to and I actually heard during the pandemic that you finished all of the Agatha Christie novels? I did. Yes. Where did you start? You weren't at you didn't start at one did you? You didn't run her 66 You ran through 66 novels?

Tamsen Webster 27:56
I did. Yes. And I also in the same Panza and I think I finished I didn't start Agatha Christie in the in the pandemic the series I think I did read entirely in the pandemic was wreck stouts Nero Wolfe Wow series very impressive again like 5050 books but yeah,

Shark 28:12
so of her best novels, would you choose Murder on the Orient Express or? And Then There Were None.

Tamsen Webster 28:22
Oh, those are good. Those are good especially And

Shark 28:25
Then There Were None because they were on an island which came

Tamsen Webster 28:27
where yeah, that was super creepy. And then it's got out it's got just a really both of them are great because both of them have a really unexpected, unexpected solution to them. I would say though, that because I love train travel, it would be Murder on the Orient Express. But the book that I think doesn't get nearly enough attention from people who don't know Christie well is the murder of Roger Ackroyd, which was really the first one

Shark 28:56
in the 20s sure that that book that book will

Tamsen Webster 28:59
blow your mind and if you don't like immediately want to read the rest of her books after that. Yeah, I don't know. Then you're just obviously not a mystery fan because that that that book is as it is it clinic and storytelling.

Shark 29:13
All right, number three, and sadly I know this anecdote about you you love Diane Von Furstenberg dresses. Thank you. I've heard you mentioned this multiple times sation and now now that I get on the road is so much more as a speaker I don't think about what to wear the same way that a lot of women do with mic packs. So I'm having to twist this up a little bit. Because I learned what a wrap dress was now but if you were buying one of her signature wrap dresses, which of which I have many in would you rather buy that dress in person or shop online?

Tamsen Webster 29:50
Oh well I whenever I can go to what I refer to as Mecca, which is the which is the DVF studio store the last remaining store on 14th Meet in the meatpacking district in New York, I will do that every time. But since that's not always possible, I will take online as a as a as a distant second, but heck yeah, I would always buy it in person, because Mecca she lives upon the store. I mean, come on. Why wouldn't I do that? Love her.

Shark 30:21
So last time I asked you, James Bond question. Okay. And you said, I asked you Daniel Craig or Sean Connery and you went with Daniel Craig. Yes, I'm still I'm still in camp Craig. So I'm gonna take a little bit of a twist on this and I'm just gonna ask you Bond villains. Alright, okay. Heavier bar Diem as roll Silva. Okay, or Christoph Waltz is Blofeld?

Tamsen Webster 30:50
Oh Bardem. No question. Way creepier. Like much better villain. Yeah, I think that they they kind of denatured

Shark 31:02
well, they wasted waltz in a little bit of a way. I love the greatest actors on the planet.

Tamsen Webster 31:06
I wish they had not killed off Andrew Scott. Like, I think Andrew Scott. Oh. He's also a great hot priest. But I mean, he's such a good bad guy. Just I mean from that. I mean, he was also Moriarty in and Sherlock and I wish that they could find a way to bring Andrew Scott back as a villain. I mean, they've brought Barbara What's your name? Barbara. The sorry. I'm not even remembering. But there was a you know, there was a woman that's been a Bond girl twice. So I'm like, Well, if you can bring a Bond girl back. You can bring in just go back to so rose. Ladies. Were for anybody who likes Andrew Scott doesn't have to be just leaving.

Shark 31:47
Well, and I never thought of him as a great hot priest. But I guess that was well, yes. Well, there was a mention for an open door mate. Chapter three. So

Tamsen Webster 31:58
go back to Andrew Scott. I mean, but he does play for the other team. So whoever whoever would enjoy Andrew Scott, I think it's sides with me in the we need more Andrew Scott.

Shark 32:09
Alright, so I've asked you biscuits or cornbread before and I know you're a biscuit gal. That's right. Change it up a bit. Because a lot of people, a lot of people that didn't write books during COVID shutdowns, did switch to healthier alternative flours. And I'm also leaning into this because the title of Chapter Seven is imaginary Mills Brian no flour. So how's this for a tie in? So if you were at your local Boston Whole Foods, and they were out of white flour, which they may not even have white flour now think about considering Whole Foods. They take those biscuits you would pick almond flour or coconut flour.

Tamsen Webster 32:43
Oh cheese. Um, I would I would choose and this I know this is probably not allowed but I would choose neither because I have a sensitivity both almonds and Karela so but I would go with rice flour. So if I went in with if I had to go with an alternative flour, it would be rice and because I actually use that to make sure that my sourdough bread. Yes, I went full pandemic doesn't stick and it's in its rising basket. And rice flour is awesome for that. So brown rice flour.

Shark 33:16
Great suggestion. So Tamsen, again I've always loved your messaging I've loved your speeches talking about the red thread this fine your red threads been a fantastic book, Where do people go to get it

Tamsen Webster 33:28
Easiest places....to go to red thread book dot com that will redirect you to my website and a special page on my website where yes, you can find all the places online where you can buy it but also you'll see that there's some extra goodies if you buy more than one copy. Or if you just want some extra goodies for the book so it's it's extra bonuses right there at red thread book.com

Shark 33:48
Perfect until the fourth episode we record together. Thank you again for joining us on sharks perspective.

Shark 33:55
My pleasure this three peat was the best yet.

Shark 33:59
The best one today.

Shark 34:05
So there was my conversation with Tamsen Webster a keynote speaker, part message strategist full time idea whisper on that big idea, a subject matter of marketing and storytelling, and now the author of fine your red thread, make your big ideas irresistible. Let's take a look at three key takeaways from my conversation with her.

Shark 34:21
First, I asked her whether she thought a lot of brands knew their message well or if their message was wrong. I loved her answer because she says people may know the message, but layer if you will, with too many messages. And those become so confusing. As you've heard me say a million times on the show. The confused buyer says no. And the more we tangle our message while the thread unravels in a way that confuses buyers, employees, your stories, your advertising etc.

Shark 34:46
Second, a goal should be a question your audience cannot answer at this time. And you can anchor your answer on that question. Love this quote from the book when you know what someone wants. You know where the story starts.

Shark 34:59
Third, she He says the truth is missing in most of the messaging. And that's the big power of this book agreed?

Shark 35:05
Got a question, send me an email to Kenneth at a shark's perspective dot com.

Shark 35:09
Thank you again for the privilege of your time. And I'm so thankful to every one of you listens. Thank you to the amazing sponsors Invoca and Drips.

Shark 35:17
Please consider writing a review and letting me know your thoughts on the show.

Shark 35:20
And don't let your big ideas die on the vine simply because they didn't have the right words to articulate them. Please join us on the next episode of A Shark's Perspective.
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