Transcription
****Please forgive any and all transcription errors as this was transcribed by Otter.ai.****

[intro music]
Shark 0:16
Welcome back and thank you for joining A Shark's Perspective. I am Kenneth "Shark" Kinney, your host and Chief Shark Officer. br>
Shark 0:23
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Shark 1:15
And now back to the show. br>
Shark 1:17
Brands in a cookieless world have a lot to consider. How will they maintain relationships with consumers and pull them back to their websites without leveraging a small piece of technology that's been a crutch for so long? What will this do to brands and agencies as they explore experience in the relationships with consumers? Will a digital Renaissance begin in a cookieless world? br>
Shark 1:39
Ricardo Diaz is the Chief Digital Officer at omelette an independent creative ad agency. br>
Shark 1:44
And on this episode we'll discuss creative relationships in a cookieless world, a renaissance in digital marketing, focus on improved digital experiences, first and third party cookies, partnerships, how companies of all sizes maintain this with transparency and honesty, Austin Powers and making DVDs, Pascal and COBOL, sharks in the Zambezi, eating breakfast and coming up with a name, Laker greats, a dad joke for marketing campaigns, and a lot lot more. br>
Shark 2:10
So let's tune into a Chief Digital Officer with the chief shark officer on this episode of a sharks perspective. br>
Shark 2:21
Ricardo, thank you so much for joining us today on the sharks perspective. Tell us a little bit about your background, your career today. br>
Ricardo Diaz 2:27
Thank you so much for having me, Kenneth, I have an interesting background and I kind of fumbled my way into advertising. I was a computer nerd growing up in LA graduated with computer science degree in 1999. And in 99, the internet was a much different place. But I knew I kind of wanted to do something with the Internet. I kind of liked it. I can't say I'm a fortune teller didn't know it was gonna blow up to what it is today. But I really enjoyed kind of the the promise that the internet had. br>
Shark 2:54
Well, let me stop you there. What languages were you studying Java, Java, br>
Ricardo Diaz 2:59
I'm an old person can I pass your COBOL Pascal is callin COBOL and Fortran are the languages that I started learning from, you know, which Pascal is actually a really great language to learn. It's pretty easy one. Now they like learning to drive I think is what the what the colleges are teaching you. But then I graduated college and came back to LA, I didn't know what I wanted to do. I knew I wanted to work with creative people. And I got a job at a production agency making websites for the movie for the entertainment industry. movies, like the awesome powers in the matrix in that era. And I was also making DVDs if you remember those things. Back in the day, I was authoring DVDs and making websites and one of the DVDs I authored in our only advertising client was this DVD we made for BMW, the higher the film series, I don't know if you remember that. That was a that was that was a branded content before the term was around. And, and I was able to work with that agency, I learned a little bit more about the industry. And I got intrigued. So I kind of left that production agency and started at shyed de Los Angeles in 2007 2007 As director of creative technology. And that was really like a second education. For me learning the advertising world, learning how the sausage is made, how big How big brands, work with big budgets and make huge impacts into culture. And that was really fun and a great part of my career. I also was a great time learning it was it was when digital was coming into the big agencies and learning how to use digital. So that was a really fun time also worked with TBWA at a global level and helped kind of bring in craft technology to different offices around the world. I left there around six years and wanted to go somewhere smaller went to an agency called XMBC here in Los Angeles, and then about two years later kind of started on where I'm at now. I'm having a great time there recently got promoted to Chief Digital Officer and really excited about the future. br>
Shark 4:54
So why the name omelette? I know agencies always have catchy names, but br>
Ricardo Diaz 4:59
there's no Real, no real, like quirky answer for this. The the founders just were out of out of a list of names, and they just looked at what they're eating and literally called it. br>
Shark 5:11
Yeah, that sounds perfectly well, because there's so many that I know, they're just like br>
Ricardo Diaz 5:16
jumping frog, I'm gonna try to try to justify br>
Shark 5:19
that red panda and it just never makes any sense. So let's talk about then where we're heading with cookies. Tell me about how you're seeing a cookieless world, and how that will drive agencies into what I know you've referred to as sort of a renaissance in digital marketing. br>
Ricardo Diaz 5:38
Yes, yes, that's a loaded question. And I'm gonna take a couple steps back, like the thing I really enjoy about like, the, the concept of a cookieless world is that if you think about it, the digital marketing is fundamentally changing, you know, right in front of our eyes, there's this, you know, what, 380 million million billion industry, that's actually going to change how it works. And that's pretty scary. And but I also think there's a lot of opportunity in that, you know, and I think it's changing. And there's a couple principles that I see happening, there's two things, one of it is regulations are going to continue to evolve. So that's one thing that I think you know, that, you know, to what you're alluding to, what what we think is okay, in five years may not be the same that we think is okay, and acceptable in 10 years, you know, the cats out of the bag, and this is going to be an ever evolving Puck, and there's going to continue moving, you know, consumers are starting to finally, I'm not saying we're there yet at all, but are starting to start understanding the value of personal data. Just we're just barely starting to touch on that. And I think this is one of the first steps, you know, so that's one thing to think about is, as consumers are starting to care, and more importantly, regulators are starting to care even more, right? So that's going to be a moving object. Right? The other thing, is that, that this allows us is relationships are, I think, more important than ever relationships with your audience. And, and what do I mean about that, I've kind of mean, that first party data, you know, now we have to rely more on the data that our consumers give us directly, we can't buy our way into learning about our audience anymore through third party cookies, we have to either partner with some, some trusted company, one, maybe one company or work with, work on how to get a better relationship with your customers, so that they can feel that they can give you in from their personal information, you know, so it's that trust, its authenticity, being authentic to them, and having that relationship, you know, and that's what I think is really interesting, you know, we're now we're, we, you know, third party cookies, were a little bit of a crutch, that we leaned on a little too much. And now we're going to have to go back and, and build that relationship a little more. So what how do you build that relationship, there's gonna be a bunch of ways, you know, loyalty programs, partnerships, like I just mentioned, but one of the ways I do think is creativity, right, creativity is a way that you can break through and create some of those relationships with your customers. Digital creativity, specifically is kind of how I see a lot of promise on how we bring back some really cool digital experiences, giving consumers reasons to come back to your website, you know, having having programs that, you know, ask for an email address, but give value to the consumer that value exchange is more important to it's not just, you know, creativity and storytelling, it's also that value exchange. So we're gonna have to rely on on those on those, those principles that, you know, we had to rely on before when when technology kind of kind of, you know, started in advertising. And we're going to have to go back to a little bit of that, and I really, in likey, you know, the possibilities of making really cool, fun digital experiences, also valuable utility types of things, to build that relationship with consumers and have them give you more of their information so that you learn more about them for br>
Shark 9:05
Just for shiggles, let's back up. And obviously, I get smartest audience on the planet, but the fine what's going away in the form of cookies. br>
Ricardo Diaz 9:13
All right. So, you know, their cookies are sitting as first party cookies and third party cookies. First party cookies are cookies that you get information directly from the customer, if I go to your website, I'm giving that information third party cookies are other companies grabbing that information and companies that you're not aware of grabbing, and putting their cooking, tracking and tracking you on different websites. So you go to a website and you may know, you know, you go to the Nike website, you know, may know Nike is getting some information from you, but we don't know is there's a lot like 2030 other maybe 100 Other companies grabbing some other information from you, you know, and so that third party cookies is going away, you know, and that's a good thing. You know, we that, that was that technology wasn't used in the best way. And there were some privacy considerations that we had to think about from a consumer point of view. So and so now we have to work with first party cookies. And another point. And so that's the difference between a third party cookies and the first party cookies. third party cookies are from what customer other third party companies that you don't necessarily are visiting or aware of, are gathering information from you first party cookies are a direct kind of exchange of data from the company that you're visiting. And, and now that third party cookies are going away, a lot of the data and marketing metrics that we're used to, are also being being are kind of going away, too. So that's the hard part. You know, that's a lot of the the metrics that we depend on to make some marketing decisions are going to change, you know, and we have to figure out as an industry, you know, where how we start judging engagement or success. And and that's going to be changing as well, based on the data that we're getting now that that, that we were the data that we're not getting that we were getting for. Hopefully, I've made sense of, br>
Shark 11:14
yeah, no, completely. So with what's driving a lot of the personalization, how is getting rid of all cookies going to improve the customer experience? br>
Ricardo Diaz 11:22
That's a great question. And one thing I want to make a point of is that I don't, I'm not against ad tracking, first party cookies are not going away, they're actually getting way more important. And I actually like ad tracking, I like if done transparently and responsibly, I think that's a very great way to to, you know, to, to understand what I'm going to be interested in, if I go to a webpage, I rather have ads that, that speak to me, then then things that have, you know, no relationship to, you know, and that that that connection, having ads that speak to me, it makes for the best consumer experience, the best brand experience and the best, you know, financial situation. So it is it, it is an important thing that we have to figure out. The thing is the technology stack that we had, running it before wasn't the right thing. And we're fixing that now. And we're moving away from from some of the third party cookies, and some of the things that were bad with that system. But because of that we're having to figure out a new system, you know, but, but again, you know, ad tracking is, is, is works, I think, you know, when we figure out ad tracking, everyone wins, the brands, the consumers, and you know, there that experience is, is great for both sides, brands aren't losing money on wasted media, and consumers are getting, are getting a better user experience with ad that they actually enjoy and want to get, you know, so I do think, and this is a, you know, $350 billion industry, we have to figure this out, you know, we have to figure out how we can make money and in a transparent way on the internet, not just for the big companies, but also for the small companies, you know, more importantly for the small companies, you know, in a problem with this first party data is that the bigger companies are going to get more are going to get bigger, the rich are getting richer, the apples, the Amazons, the Facebook's there's a problem with this, they have a lot of the first party data that all the other companies want to tap into, you know, and it's going to be interesting to see what they do and those industry leaders and how they kind of lead the charge you know, and they're going to want to hold on to to their to their chips and their cookies. But uh, but it is important for us to figure out how we can make you know, a decent money on the internet at transparently and honestly, br>
Shark 13:49
what's your advice, then to that small to medium business then to design a personalized experience? Because to your point, Mr. is going to be ridiculously tough. And just the fortune 1000 And the major publishers are going to collect all this information. And we've been talking about teaching people to leverage data, but telling a small to medium sized business that doesn't really have a strong data collection business. It's gonna be tough for sure, for br>
Ricardo Diaz 14:15
sure. That's a great question. And I try to think about that a lot. Because I think it does help with the Evergreen nature of the internet, we have to figure out how we can democratize making money on there. And the small companies have it the toughest they have to figure out like partnerships, right? Maybe there's partnerships they can do. They're gonna have to lean on the big, big, big companies like Facebook's and and Instagrams and Twitter's of the world to see like they're gonna have to use some of their platform, they're not gonna be able to completely isolate it, but they're gonna have to find ways to you know, using like word things like Squarespace and Shopify to quickly put up web, you know, websites and and have final final reasons for people to visit them as opposed to going and visiting their Facebook page or their facebook group page. It's more of having that ownership of that of that landing page that you have on the internet. And luckily, there are some tools that you can you can ramp that up pretty quickly, without knowing too much code. But it's an it's also like making some content, you know, revising some of that content, refreshing that content. So there's reasons for people to come back having a newsletter, you know, email CRM is going to get is another thing that's going to get more important and could be something that a small business can lean on. But it is going to be tricky, things are going to get Messier, before they get better. And it's going to be an interesting, crazy next couple years. br>
Shark 15:44
So when you think of the creativity that will come as a result of this, from a positive standpoint, where do you see that creativity shining through? br>
Ricardo Diaz 15:53
The question? I think an application of this an interesting application of this is that we're going to be making more marketing experience type of websites, it's not necessarily the such the informative, Hey, come here for this or that it's more of like making experiences that we were kind of building before. Is it? Is it a? Is it a video game? Is it a? Is it a quiz? Is it you know, some sort of thing? You know, it could be really, it could be a question, you know, it could be a question of the day, you know, something that kind of, you're you're you're trying to interact with, with the consumer, I love the internet. And it's, it's progressed so much since when I first started playing around with it with Web GL, you know, and VR, you can make so many really cool experiences today that you couldn't do 10 years ago, making worlds and online is super fascinating. And we may not be exactly there yet. But that's kind of where I see us growing into, you know, so they can use, you know, one aspect, the way, the way I like is just experiences online using, you know, using a lot of modern kind of web technologies. We really haven't, we have been pushing the envelope on that from a marketing point of view. And I think hopefully, we'll get there. br>
Shark 17:07
So how do we make our content better for consumers from a more creative standpoint to pull them in? Since we now know that Google's ranking that is the number one factor? br>
Ricardo Diaz 17:17
Yeah, well, the discovery discovery problem is something that we do with our clients all the time as well, you know, the clients don't want to be on the on social platforms, and they want to be able to better understand how users are coming to their site. So that's something we have to deal with, with our clients that I think is going to be harder, so it's about harder, it's a very hard situation right now, where a lot of consumers are going towards platforms and are staying there mostly, you know, that's the thing I didn't love about Facebook's and, and the Instagrams of the world that you know, you it was kind of a walled garden. And now that's what most people's internet experience is, can't making content that, that speaks to your audience, making repetitive content that come back to a series, maybe it's, you know, blog posts or something back then, and having some thought leadership that that is different, you do have to understand the user journey. You know, SEO is a big part of that. And that's something you have to spend some money on to understand, you know, Amazon's you know, Amazon's of the world competing with them, you're not going to be able to compete with them as a small company, but you can make some, you know, some different content. And and also, you know, experiences is it, is it, you know, is it asking for an email, so that you get a newsletter and get some more information or some more personalized information. And then also showing what you what you get from from that value exchange, I think that's what brands are starting to do more is, is, is understanding that, that consumers have a lot of different types of ways to spend their time on the internet, what are we going to do for them and, and that that's going to be more important, you know, what, what are we going to? Why are we going to come to my site and having content that speaks to the audience understanding that and is differentiating from from some of your competitors is, is, I think, even more important today than it was yesterday. br>
Shark 19:12
What's the number one recommendation you would make to marketers and brands today who are looking at making changes going into a cookieless world? br>
Ricardo Diaz 19:23
Data Analytics is more important than ever, and having some that skill set in house is going to be imperative moving forward. Understanding how you can use that information in a transparent and responsible ways is going to be a very important thing for the future. br>
Shark 19:42
All right, Ricardo, you're an LA guy. So I just have everybody that's been on my show. What is your favorite kind of shark and why you get a lot of baby Great Whites in particular that are 100 yards off the coast in LA off the beaches there, br>
Ricardo Diaz 19:55
Actually, and correct me if I'm wrong, Kenneth but the Zambezi shark is a bull shark that can both being saltwater and freshwater correct. So I love the fact that that shark can be both fresh and saltwater as an adaptive and change and kind of kind of like that. So because of that it's my favorite shark. br>
Shark 20:12
The Zambezi shark or the Zambi shark has been found in Zambezi River in Africa has been found in Mississippi River and it's also been found in Lake Nicaragua. A whole story that goes along with that, that's interesting as well. So yeah, it's a very interesting shark that can live through both. Alright, Ricardo is a special time in the show, you're ready for the five most interesting and important questions you're gonna be asked today. Looking forward to it. Alright, number one. You work at an agency called omelet. So there's obviously an omelet question Denver omelet or Spanish omelet.

Ricardo Diaz 20:49
Denver omelet/

Shark 20:52
It's a good traditional omelet. Yeah. Alright. Number two, you're an LA guy. Kobe or magic?

Ricardo Diaz 21:01
That's a hard question. Kind of cool. I think magic just because that's he was such a legend. When I was first getting into basketball and young age. Kobe I grew up with and was probably more impactful in my career, or in my life. Actually, in my career. I worked with him a little bit. But I would say magic.

Shark 21:22
Yet Kobe is a certain middle choice because he passed away and he also had five rings. And it also be easy to say that he wasn't as good without Shaq. But you could say say the same thing about magic who is outstanding, and he wouldn't Korean nearly what he was without Korean. So

Ricardo Diaz 21:38
I've been lucky enough to have both legends on my favorite basketball team. So that's Yeah, it's pretty

Shark 21:43
hard to argue against either one of them. Alright, number three. You mentioned working on some Austin Powers movies. Yes, Austin Powers The Spy Who Shagged Me in 99 or Austin Powers in Goldmember. 2002. And Spy Who Shagged Me classic. It is except that Goldmember had really good focus on Dr. Evil. So it was, it was a good point. All right, number four, we've been talking about a lot about cookieless. And I will tell you this fun fact. Do you know why cookie campaigns have always been my favorite campaigns? Why? Because they're very delicious. But number four, you can use that one later number for chocolate chip cookies or macadamia nut,

Ricardo Diaz 22:30
chocolate chip, without a doubt.

Shark 22:33
I don't know about that. But

Ricardo Diaz 22:35
I'll go I'll go to my grave on that.

Shark 22:42
Alright, number five. And the most important question you're gonna be asked days biscuits or cornbread, cornbread. Alright, Ricardo, where can people find out more about you keep up with what you're doing and omelet more.

Ricardo Diaz 22:52
You can find me at Ricardo de is on the socials and Ricardo calm and then visit on the.com If you want to learn more about my agency, thanks so much for having me is awesome. br>
Shark 23:04
Awesome. Ricardo, thank you so much for being with us today on A Shark's Perspective. br>
Ricardo Diaz 23:08
Thank you. br>
Shark 23:13
So there was my conversation with Ricardo Diaz, the Chief Digital Officer of Omelet, an independent creative ad agency. Let's take a look at three key takeaways from my conversation with him. br>
Shark 23:23
First, consumers are starting to understand the value of their personal data. And regulators are better understanding this to more brands, especially the small to medium sized ones are starting to realize more the value of first party data. This will force many to have a better relationship and or partner with someone. Keep your eyes open for partnership possibilities. Some of these may create real opportunity for your brand. br>
Shark 23:45
Second, love disappointing third party cookies, having been a little bit of a crutch that we leaned on a little too much. Quite simply, if the most creative relationship you've had what the consumer was buy a cookie. Well, now's the time to build something different cookies can provide great value, but there has to be something more to get people to want to come back to your website. br>
Shark 24:04
Third, will marketers focus more on the marketing experience of websites? I hope so. And I hope that it's not just through gimmicks but really waste to connect with customers. The focus is good. My hope is for more. br>
Shark 24:16
Got a question? Send me an email to Kenneth at a shark's perspective dot com. br>
Shark 24:21
Thank you again for the privilege of your time. I'm so thankful to everyone who listens. br>
Shark 24:25
Thank you to the amazing sponsors Invoca and Drips. br>
Shark 24:28
Please consider writing a review and letting me know your thoughts on the show. br>
Shark 24:31
Another cookie to consider is the fortune cookie. I hope that you'll find great fortune in life, especially when you join us here on the next episode of A Shark's Perspective.
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